Brennan Tours

[stickinout]

Interesting. Never heard about this. Any chance of a pointer?

Take it from me it happened, scared of adverse publicity if he had played, a ban could not have been upheld due to it not being under IRB or ERC jurisdiction but some senior players thought he should not be included.

Your dogs on the loose again? Thanks for that Rooster. It's a pity the big lump didn't sort all this c$ap out by a genuine act of contrition right in the beginning. Too many years of being a doorman and expressing himself with his fists was the problem and being too proud to know when he was wrong. .

[Big Smoke Culchie]

Couldn't give a toss about Brennan to be honest. What annoyed me about the whole thing was the instantaneous tripe offered up by journalists and people who should know better in the south, about how unpleasant and sectarian Ulster fans (and by definition anyone from Northern Ireland) obviously were.

Made we wonder if there was ever any chance of "parity of esteem" within the geography of Ireland.

It's a good thing Gerry has found God and is making programmes about Jesus otherwise I would think there was no hope for us all.

[stickinout]

Thanks Shan,
That explains why some people down here don't think of a 26county Republic but i thought that Article 19 changed everything after the Good Friday agreement? I guess the old ways of thinking change slowly in all parts of Ireland.

I don't want to appear like I'm having a go here but I'm afraid you are picking this up incorrectly.There is no state called The Republic of Ireland.The 26 county state is called Éire or Ireland by decree of the constitution of a sovereign state and that will not change and doesn't need to unless there is ever a time in the future where the whole Island becomes one political entity or some other fundamental change occurs.The 19th Amendment has nothing to do with the name of the state and only relates to the removing of Éire's territorial claim on Northern Ireland.

I think there was a great thinking change evident when 94% of the voters passed the 19th Amendment.Granted there are some people who voted in favour with the sole thinking that the Belfast Agreement would eventually lead to a new 32 county state but at least it was a totally democratic way of attempting to achieve the objective.

There is nothing at all wrong with referring to Ireland or Éire and Northern Ireland.It may appear to some as holding on to the territorial claim but it clearly is not.That does not mean I am blind to some people's views and particularly the views of extremists but they'll always be lurking no matter what.

As a good Munster man and an honorary Ulsterman, what is your view on A na F being played? Would it really be the X factor in getting the blood pumping for the majority of the team? Or is it just a final part of the whole preparation?

My view of Amhrán na bhFiann is that it should not be played for Ireland rugby matches.I can see the reasons why it is played at Lansdowne because of the President in particular and also An Taoiseach usually being in attendance.I have to admit as it is my national anthem I would be extremely lukewarm to the idea of a protest against it being played.Sometimes it is very difficult even for those of us who try always to be balanced, moderate, liberal etc etc not to have a little emotional blinker however hard we try not to.

As to whether it would pump up the team I just can't see how it would.Granted I have never stood for an anthem before a match so I cannot know for sure but how many times do we see the Italians looking all passionate about their anthem and then get destroyed.It is the same with Scotland, although to be honest I can't stand the tune of Flower of Scotland but they seem to sing with gusto only to then go and lose the majority of the time.I think people read too much into the first Croker meeting v England when Amhrán na bhFiann was sang with tremendous passion but this was not an ordinary day and the emotion had been building for weeks at least.The singing of it didn't stop us throwing away victory v France the week before.

If a player cannot enter the match arena with the right frame of mind for the ensuing battle he has no business being there.No anthem is a substitute for the will to win and the will to inflict defeat on your opponent.It is not a substitute even for the will to give everything you have for yourself, your team and your supporters, community etc.

As for Ireland's Call and our Golden Era, purely a coincidence or not?

A coincidence without a doubt but one which illustrates perfectly the absurdity of the perceived power of the anthem.

Apologies for not picking you up correctly o

You don't appear to be having a go, i'm not either:

1. So there's no state called the Republic of Ireland, I never knew that. Yet you're a republic, on the island of Ireland and are the only republic on the island but you're not called the Republic of Ireland? This is interesting and probably part of the lack of understanding i have. I thought Ireland saw itself as 32 counties until the 19th amendment and therefore up until 1999 didn't really recognise Northern Ireland? Do you not think it sounds a bit conceited that the country calls itself Ireland when the country was broken in two in 1922? It reminds me a bit of South Korea that likes to call itself Korea a lot of the time.

2. I have some friends here in Leinster who take offence at Ireland being called Eire. It's usually English people doing it and they don't mean to offend but it does. I have no idea why, what about down there in the Republic of .

3. As for A na F being played, I would also be against people protesting at it being played but i'm also not for it being played. But like many Ulstermen for many years, we stand in respect of the anthem because we're in Dublin and because we're mostly reasonable people but it doesn't mean that we feel we belong. It's a sad state of affairs that the second most musical place on earth after Wales can't come up with something we can all buy in to.

4. I totally agree with you, if a pro can't get himself up for a game like France in Paris without hearing his National Anthem he should give the game up.

Thanks Shan for your frank answers, i learned something new today.

[Shan]

1. So there's no state called the Republic of Ireland, I never knew that. Yet you're a republic, on the island of Ireland and are the only republic on the island but you're not called the Republic of Ireland? This is interesting and probably part of the lack of understanding i have. I thought Ireland saw itself as 32 counties until the 19th amendment and therefore up until 1999 didn't really recognise Northern Ireland? Do you not think it sounds a bit conceited that the country calls itself Ireland when the country was broken in two in 1922? It reminds me a bit of South Korea that likes to call itself Korea a lot of the time.

Technically the state didn't recognise Northern Ireland as it laid claim to the territory.The thing here is we all know this is a complex issue full of irrational bias and bitterness and finding the right time to have a referendum to remove the claim was always a tricky one until it could be put to people in simple terms, i.e remove the claim=peace in Northern Ireland or something quite close to this.In reality though the Govt of Ireland recognised Northern Ireland.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the Republic thing.There are lots of republics which don't use the word in their state name including The United States of America.

The thing is when the constitution was drafted they would still have had hopes, or pretended to, of claiming the counties which remained within the UK.Also, and I don't wish to labour this point, when people have fought long and hard for their independence I think they would feel an entitlement to name the country as they wish rather than what somebody else wishes.It is different now of course and we simply use the name that is the official state name.

2. I have some friends here in Leinster who take offence at Ireland being called Eire. It's usually English people doing it and they don't mean to offend but it does. I have no idea why, what about down there in the Republic of .

I'm afraid there are plenty of people within Éire who have no idea about anything.They most likely think the state is called Republic of Ireland and wouldn't know what Bunreacht na hÉireann even means.I'm afraid the people most open to offence are usually, if not always, the most ignorant.Some imbeciles think when English people say Éire they are referring to the Free State.In other words they think the English still refuse to recognise Ireland's independence and wish to cause us offence at every opportunity.What most of these individuals don't realise is that the majority of English people couldn't give a shíte.We have plenty of these down in my neck of the woods.To be honest Ireland has as many feckin idiots as anywhere else and one just has to treat them with as much indifference as possible.

3. As for A na F being played, I would also be against people protesting at it being played but i'm also not for it being played. But like many Ulstermen for many years, we stand in respect of the anthem because we're in Dublin and because we're mostly reasonable people but it doesn't mean that we feel we belong. It's a sad state of affairs that the second most musical place on earth after Wales can't come up with something we can all buy in to.

I agree with you.There is really no logical reason why a good song cannot be adopted/penned etc which would keep the vast majority happy.Of course everytime I put forward the claims of "There is an Isle" I am shot down, usually by some Garryowen langer.

4. I totally agree with you, if a pro can't get himself up for a game like France in Paris without hearing his National Anthem he should give the game up.
Thanks Shan for your frank answers, i learned something new today.

Thanks my honourable friend.It is always nice to be able to have a discussion without anybody getting too upset.In the light of my suggestion for a new rugby anthem I hope this won't change.

[cables]

Thanks Shan for your frank answers, i learned something new today.

Should you find Eire or Ireland inadequate to convey exactly what you are talking about - I frequently do BTW - then it would be at least reasonable to describe the State as the Republic of Ireland - Citation: "It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland." The quote is from the Republic of Ireland Act 1948 - passed in the Oireachtas - while I was at school BTW.

It was explained at the time, but I don't actually recall it, that this did not change the name (Eire) of the State. Think of it as an Irish fudge to avoid a name change having to be dealt with as a Constitutional Amendment. The intent was to describe Eire as a Republic.

My name is cables but I also find it acceptable to be described as a small, fat, baldy, oul man with a beard.

I do recall family trips not long after 1948. These were described to me as being to the Free State - not to the R.O.I., Eire or Ireland!

[Ardglass2]

Take a look at the book titles Tim Pat Coogan has written and it will explain his political affiliations and thus his comments.

No great crime being a blueshirt?.

Debateable

In fairness you have to admire him for editing a newspaper owned by the De Valera family and then write a biography of De Valera which is fairly critical of him.

What he actually did was write a hatchet job on De Velera. In both that book, his Michael Collins book and his IRA book he put Collins on a pedastal and make De Valera look like someone one up from a Machievellian, cowardly devil. He had a political point of view and twisted ever fact to shoe horn the story into his viewpoint. As a such he is a very poor writer of historical fact. Basically don't let the fact get in the way of his prejudice.

To be clear I actually have a low opinion of De Velera but even I could not stomach Coogan's bigotry.

[Rooster]

I do recall family trips not long after 1948. These were described to me as being to the Free State - not to the R.O.I., Eire or Ireland!

Still call it the Free State down this part of the world, or usually abreviated to the State.

[Freddie Benson]

[

4. I totally agree with you, if a pro can't get himself up for a game like France in Paris without hearing his National Anthem he should give the game up.
Thanks Shan for your frank answers, i learned something new today.

Thanks my honourable friend.It is always nice to be able to have a discussion without anybody getting too upset.In the light of my suggestion for a new rugby anthem I hope this won't change.

interesting discussion lads
I also learned a bit

[ulsterrugby4life]

superb discussion really enjoyed reading everyones view and knowledge

[Satans little helper]

Seconded !

[WhiteKnightoftheWeld]

way way way off topic ffs

[HwoodMike2umate]

Any updates on our old friend Trevor?

[WhiteKnightoftheWeld]

in addition to his pub, he's also opened a restaurant in Toulouse:

Totò Perugini has opened a restaurant in Toulouse (with Trevor Brennan and French international William Servat]

http://sport.scotsman.com/rugby/Six-Nat ... 6710341.jp

Bob Casey considers him a legend, and has slept with him:

One of my first experiences of sharing in an Irish squad context was on a tour of Australia, when I was housed with the legend Trevor Brennan.

He was great for a young rookie, very helpful with advice and we got on famously. On the first night, he confessed he snored a little bit and advised me to throw a pillow at him and he would roll onto his side. Later that night, I awoke to what I thought was the Belfast train arriving in Connolly station.

I started by calling out “Trev, Trev”, getting gradually louder but to no avail. I then threw the pillow but again there was no movement so I got another and slapped him a couple of times. Suddenly, he sat bolt upright with a wild eyed stare and shouted a few expletives. My life flashed before me, and I have to confess to being petrified. He then just lay back and went back to sleep.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 98274.html

all for now...

[Bart S]

in addition to his pub, he's also opened a restaurant in Toulouse:

Totò Perugini has opened a restaurant in Toulouse (with Trevor Brennan and French international William Servat]

http://sport.scotsman.com/rugby/Six-Nat ... 6710341.jp

Bob Casey considers him a legend, and has slept with him:

One of my first experiences of sharing in an Irish squad context was on a tour of Australia, when I was housed with the legend Trevor Brennan.

He was great for a young rookie, very helpful with advice and we got on famously. On the first night, he confessed he snored a little bit and advised me to throw a pillow at him and he would roll onto his side. Later that night, I awoke to what I thought was the Belfast train arriving in Connolly station.

I started by calling out “Trev, Trev”, getting gradually louder but to no avail. I then threw the pillow but again there was no movement so I got another and slapped him a couple of times. Suddenly, he sat bolt upright with a wild eyed stare and shouted a few expletives. My life flashed before me, and I have to confess to being petrified. He then just lay back and went back to sleep.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 98274.html

all for now...

Maybe Paddy Bamford's shouting woke him up from his sleep at the side of the pitch.

HWM - How about asking Trev if he'll run one of his tours from Belfast to Milton Kenynes for the HEC QF, with some cheerleaders and some pretty average (allegedly) Guinness thrown in???

[HwoodMike2umate]

Our Trevor appears to be doing World Cup tours this autumn and if you book one you will get to Ireland v England in August absolutely FREE and the chance to listen to him talk post match about the forthcoming tour to the World Cup.
Given that it is only 1584 days since his assault on an Ulster fan i feel i will give his Tours a miss for a further while yet.