Eng V Ire

[bogboy]

the first requirement of a backrow forward should always be a tackler the backrow is the first line of defence (openside) the number 8 and blindside are secondary defenders supporting the centres

Ball carrying backrows are a plus because that assumes possession .

The reason backrows can make effective ball carriers is they are usually the fastest forwards thus if they break the tackle substancial yardage may be gained quickly props and second rows while having weight seldom have the pace thus don't make the yardage.

Against England given the tackle count of the backrow it is hardly surprising they did not feature as ball carriers.

while Ireland won it was a win based on defence ie if Ireland had not defended well given the amount of possession enjoyed by England 3 trys would not have been enough to win the match.

I have stated before and state again while the ability to attack and attacking rugby is a joy to behold it is defence which wins matches.


And while England bore poeple playing what is basically defensive possession rugby. but for a touch of class by T Bowe,
they could easily have won the match.

[Freddie Benson]

Ireland did well with the limited possession we had - certainly much more inventive than England. But a better side will hammer us with those possession statistics.
Again made a mess of oppo lineout.
Sexton set up first two tries really well, but left a lot of points out there with his kicks at goal.

Back row immense as has been said.

Should really close out the triple crown at home now, Can't see England doing us any favours in Paris though.

[bogboy]

The English press report that Johnson is claiming they were robbed by the ref that England should have had the put in at the last scrum and/ or the Irish brought down the maul

Firstly the last maul imploded when Ireland finally got enough players into to it to force the English backwards and Lawrence was consistent in his decision "use it or lose"

His two most questionable decisions were not as the papers make out that final put in or the penalty reversal for Danny Cares attack on O'leary because that is basically was what Care did he was not going for the ball because he grapped O'Leary for behind.

He made three questionable decisions against Ireland

Firstly the tackle on Care by Ferris after he had gone 10 metres.

Secondly when Tommy Bowe was impeded by Monye when jumping for the ball i.e. Tommy Bowe had a chance of catching the ball Monye had none as he jumped in front of where the ball landed

Thirdly the alleged tackle in the air by Hislop on Armitage when Armitage jumped for the ball foot up and forward into the chest of Hislop and should have been Penalised for dangerous play. Yes Hislop pushed him aside while Armitage was in the air but at no point did he attempt to tackle Armitage.

so if the English press want to complain about the ref then they and Johnson should consider all the decisions not just those which they don't like but which could also have been correct ,ie if Ireland had been in the same position as England at the end we might complain about that decision but that wouldn't make the decision wrong.

[Jackie Brown]

Who is this Hislop you speak of?

[againstthehead]

I don't think the ref had a bad game. There's always going to be a couple of grey areas owing to the speed of the game. England have only themselves to blame. To concede a try straight from a set piece is fairly rubbish for a start. Personally, I think England are a bit lost at the minute and I reckon Johnston should be given the boot now rather than later.

[bogboy]

It is not Johnston's fault he is playing the same tactical game as Woodward but hasn't the same quality ? of players.

Bothwick is no Johnston Armitage is no Robinson the backrow is big but very limited and there is no Greenwood to direct the backline and to be honest when looking at the the GP there are few if any alternatives to the players he is picking.

[WhiteKnightoftheWeld]

he grapped O'Leary

he grapped him?
click to find out what it really means to grape someone...

[Snipe Watson]

It is not Johnston's fault he is playing the same tactical game as Woodward but hasn't the same quality ? of players.

Bothwick is no Johnston Armitage is no Robinson the backrow is big but very limited and there is no Greenwood to direct the backline and to be honest when looking at the the GP there are few if any alternatives to the players he is picking.

It is Johnston's fault. Wilkinson is too deep and a shadow of the player he was. If he was flatter, he could bring the backs into play much more as it is, it's all happening too late and the defence is in their faces. Thus 70% ball 1 try (scored by a forward). We were beaten up front, our tight 5 were second best by some way, but the back row kept us in it.
Flood would also help, hope he plays against France.

[againstthehead]

England have the largest pool of players in the world so something is going wrong. Watching England against Ireland reminded me of Ulster V The Dragons a few weeks ago. Total inability to change the gameplan when it was clearly not working. At international level there is no excuse. In fairness the English pack are doing a reasonble job and Care is a very good 9, but from 10-15 they all petrified.

[WhiteKnightoftheWeld]

problem is lack of a playmaker or game controller. plenty of good-to-very good players from 11-15 - nobody who is a "best player in the world" but plenty of reasonable options.

let's face it they arent short of options at 10 - flood and geraghty are sort-of-in-the-mix. if they want to look outside of that, barkley, lamb, charlie hodgson - a number of options when held up against either o'gara/sexton...all been capped, never given a solid run in the shirt.

a reluctance to try anything other than a tried and tested goalkicker is costing them because their pack can hold it's own against anybody, only to find ball and possession wasted time and time again.

mis-management of cipriani could be the costliest mistake martin johnson ever makes

[Bart S]

mis-management of cipriani could be the costliest mistake martin johnson ever makes

Since his 1 good game against a pretty poor Ireland team, the only consistency Danny Cipriani has shown is that he has been consistently below a decent standard for every team he has played for; england, Wasps, Saxons. How he thought he was going to get in the Lions team is beyond me as he had no form whatsoever. He doesn't deserve to be on the england team either based on form.

Maybe Ireland should pick Iain Humphreys.....

[bogboy]

Cipriani is a player who promises much was introduced to the professional game to soon and then started to believe the praise heaped on him and the money provided him a life style not enjoyed by many so young all of which have been detrimental to his development as a player a change of location could do him a lot of good.

[AndyB]

Cipriani had a nasty injury, was brought back into the Autumn internationals before he was ready and was then publicly scapegoated by management because he had a few kicks charged down. Not one of the other 14 players played any good but they were kept. Total mis-man-management by MJ.

[WhiteKnightoftheWeld]

he totally tore a new arsehole thru ireland at twickenham 2 years ago.
that season (season before last) he was in utterly great form for wasps and when he got a (belated, damn you photographers snapping me coming out of a nightclub) start for england he seized the opportunity.

bad bad break/dislocation, quicker than expected return, thrown straight into the autumn internationals when he wasnt expected to even be playing again until jan/feb, made to be the scapegoat for an entirely poor team all-round, another leg break (other leg)...

in summary - had the world at his feet and after breaking both legs in 2 separate incidents and was rushed into action before he should have been.

NB that's the playing side of things, he hasnt helped himself by (reports of) an attitude problem, or by going out with kelly brook. but let's face it i'd fully be prepared to risk an international career for the same...

he is one of the few players in british rugby who can turn a game on it's head (i'd include only stephen jones and toby flood as 10s who can do that currently). one of the few players who, if on form, can control a game the way ROG does for munster and create havoc for opposition defences the way carlos spencer has done his whole career. what he needs to learn is the experience of doing the right thing when it's the right time, and super 15 will be a good crash-course in development for him.

if he comes back from melbourne in a few years a better, more rounded, more capable outhalf, then the rest of 6 nations beware.