Ferris actual world class

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Shan
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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Shan » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:11 pm

Bart S wrote:Ferris has yet to truly shine in any game against the top 4 nations. I'm sure it will happen (hopefully on the summer tour) but until he does, I fail to see how anyone could call him world class. In the past year he was decent against France once (at Croker, although completely outshone by Heaslip that day) and part of a backrow that was completed outplayed in Paris (again Heaslip was the standout performer). He was also part of the backrow that was outplayed against Australia and before his injury against SA was steady, but no more. Injury deprived him of a chance to take on the full Boks team, but whilst he showed promise in the tour games, they were no comparison.

Until he proves he can come out on top against the big boys and not just Haskell and co, he cannot be viewed as world class. Playing for Ireland provides a perfect opportunity for him to do that in the future.

The irish media is in danger of overhyping him a la Chabal.....
Very good points Bart and I agree in particular with the Heaslip comments as I've said myself elsewhere on the thread.

A lot of us, including myself, are guilty now and then of overhyping or overpraising players we are a bit excited about before they realise anything near their full potential.

However I would take a bit if issue with any comparisons between Ferris and Chabal.What has Chabal ever done that justifies all the balderdash spoken about him I'd love to know.To me he is just a battering ram who looks scary but isn't really that scary once you stand up to him as has been shown on numerous occasions.I'd like to think Ferris will be much better than that over the coming years.Some like to think Ferris isn't much more than a wrecking ball but I think he has much more skill than that.
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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Cap'n Grumpy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:20 pm

In South Africa the flankers numbers are switched from what we know - openside (6) & blind side (7).

S.B. usually plays 6 - openside I think
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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Bart S » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:39 pm

Shan - the Chabal comparison was not meant to be related to playing ability. Chabal has been shown to be a decent impact player, but no more than that. He cannot play 80 mins (or even close to that) of top level rugby. Ferris on the other hand has shown in his limited career that he has the potential to be far more than that and even become "world class" in the future.

My comments were more around the hype regarding Ferris's physicality. Yes it is impressive, but there's more to his game than that. I'd worry that he may start believing some of this and start trying to make big hits all of the time rather than first and foremost making the tackles. In a different kind of way Neil Best suffered from this during the latter stages of his Ulster career.

Like I've said, if he comes back from the summer tour with the NZ and Aussie rugby fraternity giving him respect, then he'll have earned his world class title.

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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by BR » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:07 am

Schalk Burger was a 2nd row! :stir:
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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Freddie Benson » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:40 am

Top world bind sides are Elsom, Smith and Dusatoir. Ferris best of the rest, although there are prob are couple of more saffas and frenchies who would walk into any other international team.

As stated, Burger is an openside and Broussow clearly the better SA option - although the SA public may not agree.

Interesting that mcCaw has been playing blind side in his come back games in S14 the last couple of weeks. Don't know if this is a long term plan by Henry though.
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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Snipe Watson » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:54 am

Big-al wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote:Rocky is no.1 after that it's close between 1F and Dusautoir.
Juan Smith?
I don't think Juan is the player he was 2-3 season ago. Still great, but off the boil a bit.
Obviously entirely subjective when picking betwen superb players.
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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by WhiteKnightoftheWeld » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:42 pm

all well and good...

how about u wait for a few more years and see him with a world cup and more games against the very best in the world before u start blowing yer loads and getting all ahead of yourselves...





in my mind he wouldnt start at 6 for any of the tri-nations sides. all blacks are now looking like playing 2 opensides at 6 and 7, hence mccaw playing there for crusaders.

world-class to me says one of the best in the world at the present time. what do you call someone like BOD or mccaw or carter - who have been world class for a sustained period of time (in BODs case more than a decade)?
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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by bogboy » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:31 pm

What do you call world class players who have been round a long time? Legends
2B or not 2B that is the question ?

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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Bart S » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:30 pm

2 anonymous games out of 4 in a generally poor quality 6 Nations Championship. No worse than anyone else over the piece but has certainly showed that he is nowhere near world class yet.

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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by ColinM » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:13 pm

Poor Stevie should have left his headguard on, didnt seem anywhere like himself on Saturday.

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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Ardglass2 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:48 pm

To be fair I don't think Ferris was fully fit against France, Same goes for D'Arcy on Satiurday - worrying if Kidney thinks it is ok to patch up semi fit players and send them out.

As for Saturday he was poor but then bar Earls, Bowe and Wallace so was every one else who started.

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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Ulster throw in » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:05 pm

Ardglass2 wrote:To be fair I don't think Ferris was fully fit against France, Same goes for D'Arcy on Satiurday - worrying if Kidney thinks it is ok to patch up semi fit players and send them out.

As for Saturday he was poor but then bar Earls, Bowe and Wallace so was every one else who started.

I would share your concern. Why was Darcy in particular played? Was it that DK although speaking of the Scotland threat privately he didnt believe it? Playing injured/patched up players put the rest of the team at risk.
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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by ColinM » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:18 pm

Team selection and use of subs this 6N has been very EOS like. Granted Sexton/Healy/Earls have been blooded at the highest level and now they know the ycant just walk onto an international field of play and come out winners, that will stand them in good stead for the future. However the persistence with the old favourites continues. Hayes - nuff said. DOC- started before he was ready after Cullen had played well for two games. Best - straight in after 9 months out. D'Arcy - rushed striaght into the team and then played when not fit.

Re the D'Arcy situation, PW should have started no question. Fergus Mcfadden needs to leave Leinster and start playing weekly too. Having a second kicker in the team would be useful.

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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Neil F » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:57 pm

Not sure I agree with that, Colin.

Ireland used 29 different players during this 6 Nations and 21 different starters. Some we forced by injury, granted, but a number weren't - Trimble starting against Italy, for example. This tournament also saw a number of 6 Nations and even international debuts; these are not things that one would associate with O'Sullivan. Even if it was against Italy, starting McLaughin should disprove your logic - O'Sullivan would probably have brought Simon Easterby out of retirement to fill the shirt...

I don't agree with you about O'Callaghan / Cullen; O'Callaghan is a vastly superior player - Cullen did a job on the lineouts but he hasn't got what O'Callaghan does around the park. In the situation where one player is so superior to another, you have to go with the incumbent. We have learned that Cullen is up to international rugby; we have learned that he can come in during a World Cup and front up but we also know that, if we're selecting from a full deck, O'Callaghan would be the one to start in the knock-out rounds. The same with Ferris; going into the France game, a 70% Ferris would have been a better option than anyone else. Had Leamy been fit, this wouldn't have been the case.

Hayes faded badly but I wonder how many people would have sooner seen Buckley's name on the sheet? Hayes may not make the summer tour if he continues to decline so rapidly but I don't feel the 6 Nations is the time to throw in someone like Buckley - the Ireland scrum was bad enough without doing that to it! In getting time against England and Wales, we saw Kidney looking to see if Buckley was good enough. Again, this is not something O'Sullivan would have ever volunteered.

The only one I don't get is D'Arcy against Scotland - there's little to choose between Wallace and D'Arcy at the minute and Wallace should have started against Scotland. Kidney got that call wrong and I will not speculate on his motives but given his use of Wallace last 6 Nations and in the Autumn, I doubt it's to do with conservatism or fear and rooted more in tactics and game plan.

Use of the bench is also telling; okay, O'Gara is a different kettle of fish than most but he was brought on, both against England and Scotland, when Sexton wasn't really working out and he changed the impetus of attack. Buckley got good game time and Jennings got a few outings. The back three saw changes in all five games for different reasons, but it was also shown that there are options there.

The final outcome of this 6 Nations wasn't great and Ireland were bloody awful on Saturday but none of this is really suggestive of a return to the bad old days, in my opinion. Could Kidney have taken a few more risks? Probably. Would those risks improved the outcome of things? Who knows - there are no guarantees that they would.

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Re: Ferris actual world class

Post by Ulster throw in » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:21 pm

What is kind of odd is that the Irish media are reporting Darcy as fit for Leinsters next HEC game. ??
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