Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

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againstthehead
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Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by againstthehead » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:29 pm

IMHO, the shock of the tournament so far. Okay, the scots did well against Wales, England and to an extent France but this is a side that lost away in Italy!!!! In fairness to the Scots, they had a cracking game plan and executed it very well. To beat Ireland you have to kick your points when on offer and Parks certainly did that. In addition, you need to match Ireland's kicking game and Parks & Southwell were able to do that too. Finally, their defence was solid.

Positives
- ROG kicked his points on offer

Negatives
- Hate to say this as an Ulsterman but Rory, Rory, Rory, what the hell was that. Shocking darts - overthrows and crooked throws at keys points during the game. IMHO it cost Ireland the game.
- Sexton. Set up the try very well indeed and kicking from hand reasonable but goal kicking off for the second game on the bounce!!!
- Scrum: one of the worst scrums in world rugby and I really don't think this is an over-reaction. Needs sorted for RWC.
- Lineout: see above...
- Hayes: passenger
- DK: did he even use the bench? Surely he should have had cover for Hayes. Rubbish.

I could probably go on but I think our downfall stemmed from those top 4 key points. Time and time again we lost ball at set pieces or gave away pens.

I'd actually question the point of playing sexton with DK in charge. Sexton is a cracking player but this Ireland side seems to be at its best kicking for territory, squeeezing the oposition and kicking points all day long. Unless we change the ethos of the side then perhaps ROG is still the man for 10?

I remember mentioning Parks for Ulster a couple of years ago and got well slagged off for suggesting such a thing lol.
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by shamalicious » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:41 pm

Positives:
Can't think of any right now.

Negatives:
As mentioned elsewhere, Ireland underestimated Scotland by running the ball from the beginning rather than securing a few points first.

Healy destroyed by Murray in the scrum

Lineouts terrible (sorry Rory). So many throws went loose.

Think Ferris missed quite a few tackles.. very unlike him.

Sexton's kicking had a success rate of 31% I think this 6 Nations. This cost us the game. By the way, Ronan was sent on at totally the wrong time, just as a kick was about to be taken? I'm sure this did nothing for Sexton's confidence. I was calling for ROG to be brought on at half-time, don't get me wrong, but the seeing him wanting to come on/ being sent on just before the penalty was taken I'm sure knocked Sexton.

It just seemed like Ireland didn't want to win as much as Scotland did. Really disappointing.
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by browner » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:08 pm

Fully deserved by Scotland...Irish platform just didn't function.
What's the crack with the Sexton/O'Gara switch...didn't look good on TV?
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by darkside lightside » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:14 pm

browner wrote:What's the crack with the Sexton/O'Gara switch...didn't look good on TV?
certainly didn't.....

i hope i'm reading too much into all this - but i thought today was when the gloss definitively came off the DK/Smal/Kiss reign... last year they called everything right, set everything up well and...were a little lucky?? this year we have frankly not looked up to the task more often than not... DK is all very impressively inscrutable in the interviews etc, but was manifestly sh1tting himself out there today... he'd better prove capable of reinventing himself...
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by fuzzylogic » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:36 am

by browner » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:08 pm

What's the crack with the Sexton/O'Gara switch...didn't look good on TV?
O'Gara ran onto the pitch when play stopped but because they had already elected to kick for the posts Sexton had to stay on and take the kick!
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by darkside lightside » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:41 am

fuzzylogic wrote:
by browner » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:08 pm

What's the crack with the Sexton/O'Gara switch...didn't look good on TV?
O'Gara ran onto the pitch when play stopped but because they had already elected to kick for the posts Sexton had to stay on and take the kick!
i thought it was much worse than that... it looked to me like deccie tried to get ROG on before the pen, but either his reading of the laws or his balls weren't up to it - just looked like a massive no-win ar$e-up for all concerned.
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by Snipe Watson » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:50 am

I knew I’d come on here and everyone would be kicking Rory. He was as guilty as the rest, but no more so that others. POC couldn’t win the ball at 4, so instead he called it longer. Hamilton and Kellock were all over the Munster pair, where was the call to DOC at 2 and where was the lineout specialist Cullen?
OK, blame Rory, DOC, POC, DK and Gert Smal, but don’t take the simpleton’s way out and point the finger at the hooker. And while you’re at it, how about some credit for the Jocks who put massive pressure on our lineout?
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by Shan » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:55 am

There were no positives today except perhaps the opening try.

ROG should have been brought on at half time.In fact he should have started this game given Sexton's goalkicking in recent games.I'm all for squad development but you simply have no business going into a test match with a player not able to kick goals at the required standard.Sexton missed two kicks that I would have back-heeled over and that is unacceptable.

What is also unacceptable is that we made so many silly handling errors.Simple takes from passes or reasonably easy catches dropped.ATT mentions a pass from TOL to Healy that hit his face.In fact it didn't, unless Healy scooped it into hos own face.It was an inaccurate pass and a bit too high but there was no excuse for Healy not taking it if he classes himself as international standard.That is not to exonorate TOL from some dodgy passing today.

We know we have a dodgy scrum so you are always just hoping for the best but we are supposed to have a good lineout.Not good enough today.Scotland put on a lot of pressure but seriously that is not a good enough excuse.We should be able to deal with the pressure better.A couple of lineout losses would be acceptable in these circumstances.8 or more certainly is not.Resorting to throwing long puts extra pressure on the hooker but again it is not good enough to have 3 crooked throws at this level.I am not singling out Best.He is no more guilty than anyone else in this.Cullen should have been brought on early into the second half when the game started slipping away and we had no way of gaining primary possession.He may or may not have made a difference but he couldn't make it worse.Not happy with DK in this regard.

I don't think D'Arcy was fully fit today and the only player we should ever take that risk with is BOD because we cannot play without him.Again I'm not overjoyed with Kidney here.Paddy Wallace played a big part in last year's championship and if there was a doubt he should have played.At the very least we need centre cover on the bench.Bowe and Earls can cover full back.I see no reason to carry specialist 10 & 15 on the bench especially if there is a fitness question over your centre.That said this is not where we lost the game, rather an observation on general selection poilicy.
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by Snipe Watson » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:09 am

Yes Shan, I forgot to mention D'Arcy. How did he pass a fitness test? Or did DK just ask him if he was good to go? Paddy should have played.

Even BOD's try was off a pass that was a yard forward.

I'm sad to say it, but the Bull is so far past his sell by date....someone needs to call time before all we remember is the bad.
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by Shan » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:29 am

Spot on Snipe.I just came back on there because I realised I meant to say the only possible positive was the build up to the first try before the forward pass.

It is very sad to see the once mighty Bull still being asked to play even though he is obviously well past it at this level.I've said it before it doesn't matter any more if we have no decent replacement because he offers nothing now anyway and all DK and the others are doing is tarnishing this great servant of Irish rugby's reputation.

If he is still there next 6N, never mind come RWC time DK should be sacked.I mean this and it is not emotion or overreaction to a poor performance and result.It simply means he has no business in this arena of international sports management if he cannot make such a simple decision as to stop playing a player who offers zero or worse at this level and is well beyond his international use by date.
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by BPH » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:05 am

Snipe, what about the ludicrous amount of crooked throws? Was that the Munster players' fault? Gert Smal? DK? Maybe the sun was at a bad angle

Best was gash today and was to a large degree responsible for the debacle at the line out. Take off the red and white tinted glasses during the game maybe?

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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by bogboy » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:30 am

can't really blame Rory for the crooked in --- the lineout had stopped functioning before the crooked calls were made thus the attempt at the assist with a crooked throw.

Also Rory wasn't calling the line PoC was --- it is always a mistake to go long if the middle is not functioning --- if the lineout starts to creak you should throw to two -- a scrapy ball at the front of the lineout doesn't open up the middle of the field -- an over throw or an opposition take at the end of the line does.

There are two Irish forwards who are reaching their sell by Wallace and Hayes --- Wallace lacks the pace he once had thus when he comes up against a back row who have pace he is found wanting he had good games against England and Wales who have slower back rows but against Scotland and France he was less effective .

Before the game I did point that our cover on the bench has a liability look about it ie cover for wing and fullback but lacking cover for the centre there being no Utility back .

On form Sexton is a good kicker but like IH he is a confidence player if not to the same extent

I would have prefered Boss and Trimble on the bench to day with O'Gara rather than Redden and Kearney

In fact I would have possibly started Trimble instead of Earls because Parks doesn't kick at poeple like S Jones -- Parks kicks long and into space.
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by Shan » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:10 am

bogboy wrote:can't really blame Rory for the crooked in --- the lineout had stopped functioning before the crooked calls were made thus the attempt at the assist with a crooked throw.
So Best deliberately threw the ball in crooked.Great tactic because you usually get away with this.FFS the lineout was a disaster and Best was part of that.Cullen should have been sent on instead of POC who had a nightmare and that is DK's responsibility but he can't throw or catch for them.

bogboy wrote: There are two Irish forwards who are reaching their sell by Wallace and Hayes --- Wallace lacks the pace he once had thus when he comes up against a back row who have pace he is found wanting he had good games against England and Wales who have slower back rows but against Scotland and France he was less effective .
I don't disagree that Wally is not quite as fast as he was although he showed in the England game he still retains a decent level of pace.I have concerns that he will be still at the required standard come RWC time but one thing is for sure, he was the only member of our back row who bothered to turn up for today's game.
bogboy wrote: I would have prefered Boss and Trimble on the bench to day with O'Gara rather than Redden and Kearney
I wouldn't disagree with this and as I said earlier Paddy Wallace would have been in my starting team because D'Arcy was clearly not fit.
bogboy wrote: In fact I would have possibly started Trimble instead of Earls because Parks doesn't kick at poeple like S Jones -- Parks kicks long and into space.
Makes no sense.What would Trimble have done that Earls didn't do?
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by againstthehead » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:33 am

wow, good bit of debate on here today lol.

Can anyone confirm with me - bit were ROG (tactical) and Kearny (injury) the only subs made? Contrast that with Martin Johnston who replaced 2 of his front row at half time
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Re: Positives & Negatives: Ireland V Scotland

Post by Snipe Watson » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:54 am

Boggy has got the wrong end of the stick and is talking about the crooked scrum feed and the rest of us are talking about the lineout.

BPH at what point did I say Rory wasn't guilty?
The crooked throws could well have been a deliberate attempt to keep the ball away from Hamilton and Kellock they could have been thrown exactly where Rory wanted and he was trying to get away with it. Same as the long throws, which we didn't use all season, keep the ball away from Hamilton and Kellock. The whole lineout meltdown was brought on by massive pressure from Scotland and the players and coaching staff are all responsible for not taking the necessary action to correct what was going wrong.
Had Cullen come on, Rory could have hit him every time at 2; he should have been going to DOC at 2. Slow ball is better than no ball.

Long throws and crooked throws - Rory's fault

Failure to secure ball at 4 and continuing to call high tariff throws to the tail, which we haven't been using all season – Lineout captain POC's Fault.

Failure to bring on the best lineout player and organiser in Ireland – Smal and Kidney.

Failure to properly prepare for the threat from the best lineout in the championship – Smal and Kidney

Failing to act as a team and solve the problem – every other experienced forward and the captain to some extent.

Scotland used the lineout as offensive defence, that weapon should have been taken away from them when things started to go wrong. Only a fool continues to do the same thing and expects a different result. Alternatively, take the simplistic view if you wish and blame the hooker
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