Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

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Neil F
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Neil F » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:53 pm

fuzzylogic wrote:I would have currently Touhy ranked 4th behind Ryan, McCarthy and DOC. All three have been excellent over the past 3 games, Touhy was rather poor by comparison against Fiji.
Fuzzy; I can't comment on the Fiji game, as I didn't see it. And I'll hold my hands up and say that McCarthy was outstanding in both the South Africa and Argentina games, whilst Ryan was fantastic today but comparatively poor against South Africa. O'Callaghan was poor in his cameos in both games, although I admit that his experience and the leadership that implies was much needed in this series. That said, these are performances in international games, not provincial performances. In terms of what these guys have done for their provinces last season and this, Tuohy is Ireland's standout lock. He hasn't done a lot at international level, I admit but his chances have been infrequent and inconsistent. It would be interesting to see what he could do at that level if the coach placed the trust in Tuohy that he has in the likes of Healy et al.

Not many players in Ireland are so exceptionally talented that they will make an immediate impact at international level. Some take time to get used to the pace, intensity and requirements. I think Henry is the perfect example of this - his performance today was excellent and he really grew into the game and got better the longer it went on, yet he was absolutely woeful the first time he played. I fear Kidney's selection policies are, in part, responsible here, however. I think, today, Henry proved the doubters wrong and showed he can mix it at international level; if his first cap was anything to go by, he'd never have been selected again. The concern is that if there is a perception that only certain players can play international rugby, there is a policy of patience for some (Healy, Murray, Earls - all of which have paid off) and of no patience for others. I fear that Tuohy is a good example of one who is the "victim" of this attitude. He's not considered, definitely, to be of international standard and so, his international capability is judged on performances against weak teams, in weak teams and in small-part cameos.

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Jackie Brown
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Jackie Brown » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:10 pm

Just think how good we could have been with more of the youngsters involved from last week!!

Argentina were at the same level of kack as Fiji. So really, if some take nothing from last week it's only fair to treat today with similar disdain.

Springing Henderson from the bench with 8mins left and bringing McFadden on at 14 summed up Kidders contribution to todays effort.
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by bazzaj » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Jackie Brown wrote:Just think how good we could have been with more of the youngsters involved from last week!!

Argentina were at the same level of kack as Fiji. So really, if some take nothing from last week it's only fair to treat today with similar disdain.

Springing Henderson from the bench with 8mins left and bringing McFadden on at 14 summed up Kidders contribution to todays effort.
Wasnt that game made for Paddy J coming on with 20 to go or a Madigan or Keatley to get their international stripes.
Or beagle for that matter.
Well done DK another chance blown.

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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Dublin4 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:34 pm

yes
Four more years
Four more years.
No it's not a nightmare. It's for real.
Declan Kidney will be our national team coach for England RWC in 2015.
I was right though. I said a big performance was coming on and it came. Let's see, that should carry Kidney until at least the 2014 6N...hmm.
To be serious, we were very good today. Those of you who have slagged off D'Arcy, please now apologise and get into your sack cloth and ashes. He was very good. They were all good.
Which of the big 3 provinces to pick up McCarthy? I suspect we will in Leinster.
I continue to have a dream. We wipe out Wales on Feb 2nd. I love beating the Welsh. I can tolerate keeping Declan if we can beat Wales.
Good old Tonga....

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Jackie Brown
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Jackie Brown » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:42 pm

I disagree, I thought Conor Murray was tom kite.

D'Arcy did less than Marshall last week against a backline with a similar aversion to tackling.
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BaggyTrousers
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by BaggyTrousers » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:12 pm

Some all too predictable nonsense, the usual victims selected. I'll say no more, I got most of my well of anger & hatred out last night. :lol:
Support the team and coaching staff. Forget the rest,BUT NEVER MOVE ON.

FIRFU - FU'CK YOU ONE AND ALL, CAVING IN TO SPONSORS, SACKING THE INNOCENT FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE, SHAMEFUL BASTA'RDS. YOU'VE LOST MY SUPPORT & I HOPE MORE ULSTERMEN & WOMEN

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Kofi Annan
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Kofi Annan » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:20 pm

Why was O' Gara on the bench, is it because him and a few others have ( Darcy O'Connell etc )Wigglesworths investments to pay of . Anyway Kidney till the world cup I say.
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Kofi Annan
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Kofi Annan » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:49 pm

LastKnightoftheproms wrote:
Kofi Annan wrote:Why was O' Gara on the bench, is it because him and a few others have ( Darcy O'Connell etc )Wigglesworths investments to pay of . Anyway Kidney till the world cup I say.
Yes Kofi, there is no doubt that cap fees pay mortgages. If people's property investment portfolios had paid off there'd be several "retired" players by now.

Still, as MF says ROG has got years left in him and Kidney has today proven what a cute hoor he is out-thinking the RGs.
mortgages are fine, but if there's say a conflict of Interest to maintain some beyond their sell by date then it effects selection, but there ya go.
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fuzzylogic
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by fuzzylogic » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:53 am

by Neil F » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:53 pm
fuzzylogic wrote:
I would have currently Touhy ranked 4th behind Ryan, McCarthy and DOC. All three have been excellent over the past 3 games, Touhy was rather poor by comparison against Fiji.
Fuzzy; I can't comment on the Fiji game, as I didn't see it. And I'll hold my hands up and say that McCarthy was outstanding in both the South Africa and Argentina games, whilst Ryan was fantastic today but comparatively poor against South Africa. O'Callaghan was poor in his cameos in both games, although I admit that his experience and the leadership that implies was much needed in this series. That said, these are performances in international games, not provincial performances. In terms of what these guys have done for their provinces last season and this, Tuohy is Ireland's standout lock. He hasn't done a lot at international level, I admit but his chances have been infrequent and inconsistent.
In the Fiji game, DOC was the standout performer in the pack. Touhy went completely AWOL.
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Snipe Watson » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:04 am

fuzzylogic wrote:
by Neil F » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:53 pm
fuzzylogic wrote:
I would have currently Touhy ranked 4th behind Ryan, McCarthy and DOC. All three have been excellent over the past 3 games, Touhy was rather poor by comparison against Fiji.
Fuzzy; I can't comment on the Fiji game, as I didn't see it. And I'll hold my hands up and say that McCarthy was outstanding in both the South Africa and Argentina games, whilst Ryan was fantastic today but comparatively poor against South Africa. O'Callaghan was poor in his cameos in both games, although I admit that his experience and the leadership that implies was much needed in this series. That said, these are performances in international games, not provincial performances. In terms of what these guys have done for their provinces last season and this, Tuohy is Ireland's standout lock. He hasn't done a lot at international level, I admit but his chances have been infrequent and inconsistent.
In the Fiji game, DOC was the standout performer in the pack. Touhy went completely AWOL.
DOC is having a good season...........
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Shan
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Shan » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:20 am

Jackie Brown wrote:I disagree, I thought Conor Murray was tom kite.

Agreed. I particularly thought his pass to Sexton in the lead up to Zebo's try was utterly woeful and he should be dropped for that alone.
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Shan
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Shan » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:32 am

LastKnightoftheproms wrote: Still, as MF says ROG has got years left in him and Kidney has today proven what a cute hoor he is out-thinking the RGs.
It's just classic Kidney stuff really. Win a Grand Slam with most of the golden generation just at or a bit beyond their prime in some cases, then take some pain while waiting for the new fish to develop sufficiently to be comfortable and effective at international level. Genius that he is he has managed to get some of the less experienced guys to suffer painful defeats to give 'em just the motivation they need to push on and become warriors who'll back down from nothing. He now has almost a full 15 of near top class talent with plenty of similarly talented individuals in many of the positions in reserve just in time for an assault on the 6N when he needs it most. Timed to perfection. Just when we thought he was out they pulled him back in. Legend that Deckster.

>TLGH
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Shan » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:43 am

DOC is having a good season...........
He certainly is Snipe. Best season since 2009 thus far. Indeed if he was 2 years younger he'd have been starting instead of McCarthy.

That is not to take away from McCarthy who has had 2 good games. However the gulf in class between himself and Ryan was evident today. McCarthy is decent but Ryan , and DOC on his day, are in a different league.

I would still say that Tuohy is better than McCarthy but he didn't do enough v Fiji to force his way in.
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Shan
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Shan » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:55 am

LastKnightoftheproms wrote:Aye Shan, a new 4 year contract and we can get back to lulling the rest of the teams into a false sense of security. :lol:
Mmm yes indeed. :D

Ya know though in the business world generally speaking the first and last quarters are always the strongest. Maybe DK is just trying to introduce this type of professionalism to the IRFU. >EW

Goodness knows those clowns need to be introduced to professionalism. I'd imagine if a lot of them had to exist in the real world where reward reflects results they would be struggling. Course many of these guys will just use their connections to get handy public sector jobs where the same rules don't apply. Accountability does not exist in Irish upper echelon public sector and closed group endeavours.

OK I am somewhere closer to Reykjavik than Limerick at the moment. :D
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Re: Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

Post by Russ » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:41 am

Dublin4 wrote: To be serious, we were very good today. Those of you who have slagged off D'Arcy, please now apologise and get into your sack cloth and ashes. He was very good. They were all good.
Why?

We dominated the first half, because we avoided giving the ball to D'Arcy.

Bowe and Gilroy were crashing it up off 10 with pace, 2nd phase, Sexton Zebo, with Earls outside. Where was Gordon?

I haven't watched the second half in detail, but the sooner D'Arcy goes, the better for Irish rugby

Thought ROG deserved his cheers, hoping they are the last we ever hear for him

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