Declan Kidney – the amazing diminishing rugby coach

[Snipe Watson]

Now that Radge is just a pitiful shambling wreck of a once fine Flyhalf and I don’t see the need to trample on a man’s personal mysery, yes even Radge’s. I take no pleasure in a man making an utter fool of himself in two consecutive cameo appearances for Ireland. Now ye didn’t think you’d be reading that today Shan, did ye?

Anyway I digress. In this situation, I’m becoming increasingly fond of an oul swipe at D’Arcy, but yesterday, unless my eyes deceived me, he had a fairly good game. So no swipe from Snipe is needed this week.
Feeling lyrical as well as benevolent this morning.

[Shan]

Now that Radge is just a pitiful shambling wreck of a once fine Flyhalf and I don’t see the need to trample on a man’s personal mysery, yes even Radge’s. I take no pleasure in a man making an utter fool of himself in two consecutive cameo appearances for Ireland. Now ye didn’t think you’d be reading that today Shan, did ye?

Anyway I digress. In this situation, I’m becoming increasingly fond of an oul swipe at D’Arcy, but yesterday, unless my eyes deceived me, he had a fairly good game. So no swipe from Snipe is needed this week.
Feeling lyrical as well as benevolent this morning.

While I wouldn't quite describe him in the same terms you would use my good Snipe, I agree with the sentiment. I believe I suggested at the end of last season it was time to move on from the bold ROG. A wonderful servant to Ireland over the years but it would be simply awful to see him being rolled out time after time now when he is clearly beyond contributing positively for Ireland.

On the second point your eyes did not deceive you. I don't know where people are getting the idea that Darcy was not part of this performance. One example of what he did was his involvement in Sexton's fist try. Never mind the number of times he got over the gainline to give us forward momentum and his defence along with the ever improving Earls.

But of course some folk don't like to see what is happening. Self-conditioning can often be a more powerful force than sight.


Oh and by the way my friend I am not surprised by your words. I have known for a while now you are not a complete langer. Just a bit of a one.

[Neil F]

Yesterday was D'Arcy's best performance in a green shirt for about five years. I've been critical of D'Arcy but the performance he put in yesterday was top quality.

[Bangors]

Don't think England are world beaters BUT it was so refreshing to see a coach who was thinking ahead (ie world cup in 2015) and was selecting a team with that in mind
And it wa seven better to see a coach who - when the match was almost certainly won - was prepared to give the Bench some meaningful game time unlike DC against Argentina

[mikerob]

Peter O'Reilly in the Sunday Times had an article about the IRFU reforming their organisation with a vote planned for next week.

Essentially it seems that the various committees staffed by amateurs would be voting themselves out of existence and there would be more streamlined management of the professional game, with emphasis on having people who had experience of professional rugby.

Some snippets from the article were allegations of interprovincial poaching and provincial bias by the national coach for awards of central contracts.

It seems that D Hump has been influential in the process and mentions that he addressed the IRFU pointing out that Ireland now have 3 provinces who are feared in Europe, but a fourth whose development potential has not been fulfilled and the country should be doing better than scraping one grand slam every 60 years or so.

[bazzaj]

Don't think England are world beaters BUT it was so refreshing to see a coach who was thinking ahead (ie world cup in 2015) and was selecting a team with that in mind
And it wa seven better to see a coach who - when the match was almost certainly won - was prepared to give the Bench some meaningful game time unlike DC against Argentina

Massive +1 here.
Lancaster took off Farrell and Tuilagi who were having immense games with 20 mins to go and 18 points up.
He replaced them with Burns on debut and Joseph who were both 21 years old.
Lancaster realises no matter what he does he cannot replicate the experience of beating the All Blacks and wanted to give every member of his squad a taste of that experience.
It was a risk but it was one worth taking which showed faith in his players and the rewards long term will be massive.
Compare this to DK who against the pumas brought on OGara for Sexton, Reddan for Murray and let Henderson have 12 minutes when we were 24 points up.
A game made for the likes of small p ,PJ or Marshall to gain experience at that level and he blew the opportunity.

Lancaster picks a player but when he goes off the boil someone else gets a chance which keeps everyone on their toes and involved.
This allows them to develop.
Yet our players are allowed to under perform as long as they like so long as they produce a good game in 6.

Mike Brown is normally a full back but he gets picked on the wing and is given a free role to pop up everywhere and create havoc.
If he was told to play as a traditional wing he would be ineffective as he lacks pace and power.
Lancaster again looking at an individual and allowing him to express himself by playing to the individual strengths for the good of the team.
DK will not do this because he has his game plan set in stone regardless of who is selected..
Hope DK is watching and learning but I doubt it as he never learned from Gatland either.

[darkside lightside]

When EOS was deposed, I must say my preference was for replacing him with an outsider, someone like Jake White or Pat Howard, who would come in and look at things with fresh eyes, and try to change the mindset and parochialism of Irish rugby. I wasn’t that convinced by the choice of Kidney, but was a little mollified by his choice of staff, and his apparent willingness to delegate and discuss (a major shortcoming of EOS reign). And in fairness, when he (and Kiss and Smal) went on to deliver a Grand Slam the next year, I was starting to think that actually he was exactly the right guy to get Ireland up and running..

Hmmm.. the last 6 nations took the gloss off pretty comprehensively – we were badly found out. We never really looked capable of controlling matches, never really dominated possession, looked unimaginative and short of cutting edge, and kicked too much away – depending on our defence to squeeze our way to victory, like the last year, but unfortunately it wasn’t nearly as effective, with France in particular taking it apart time after time. I was uncomfortably reminded of watching Ireland under EOS – over-structured, no plan B, scared rugby..

With the benefit of hindsight, I don’t think this Irish group finally hit their peak in 2009 after all – they should have done in 2007, if EOS hadn’t so royally focked everything up. 2008 was a lost year, the straw that broke the camel’s back, and 2009 now looks like an upward blip on a downward trajectory – due to a freshness in the set-up, defensive system that gelled excellently and a couple of players hitting great form.

It papered over the cracks, and looking at this tour right now, the squad he’s picked, and on the back of the biggest beating ever in our inglorious history against NZ, I’m not convinced we’re much further towards building a group capable of being competitive at the next 6 nations, never mind the world cup. He pays lip service to building a deeper squad, but generally doesn’t make changes until injury forces his hand – and he seems to have adopted the EOS approach to substitutions (i.e. 70 mins if at all).

The 2009 success came by tweaking a few things and brushing things up – success in 2011 is only going to come by completely reinventing things, and frankly I’m not sure we have the time, or the head coach, to do it…

Well on the day that Kidney dimished to the point of disappearing, I thought this was worth a bump - not everybody failed to see that the mumbling, incoherent, out-of-his-depth 'emperor' was standing stark bo11ock naked the whole while, pulling the rug from under an entire generation of Irish players..

'He's the right man for the job' and 'he deserves another shot' and 'it's down to him when Ireland win, but, er, it's not his fault when they lose' (you know who you are...)

Anyway, thank goodness this pish-taking, bulls**& artist is gone - we can get a proper coach now, and the main question is will the IRFU turkeys vote for Christmas?

[ColinM]

Not seen for endless months and just popped back to say I told you so. Nice.

Tell you what I wasnt his biggest fan either but a coach losing his job is the next thing to death and taxes.

Maybe I'll start a movement to remove the next coach, surely will be proved right in a few years

[browner]

Good to hear from you again D/L...don't make it so long next time...at least not 'endless months':-D

No doubt you'll get a warmer welcome in China.

[bazzaj]

I think looking back at his legacy he got us the slam by stripping the team back to basics and playing a limited simple game plan that everyone could buy into.
He offered that stability at that time after the farcical end to the EOS era.
As an interim coach he would have been perfect but completely lacked the vision and ideas to take the side any further.
He did not acknowledge the shift in power from Munster to Leinster and kept playing a Munster style which the Leinster players were not at ease with.
In the end he really did not know whether he was coming or going.
Thanks for the slam dk an accomplishment so many have failed to deliver and good luck.

[Neil F]

Welcome back, DS

To be fair, I don't think many, if any, in this thread said Kidney was the right man for the job. His limitations were pointed out long, long ago - long before June 14 2010. Indeed, if I trawled through my historical posts on this forum, you'd see that, even before his appointment in 2008, I said that he was a coach who would deliver short-term success but who had no experience of building successful teams; rather, of getting the best out of a settled group of players. Indeed, that was why I said he wasn't the right man to give the job to, because Ireland were entering a phase of necessary transition. Of course, this thread, or any other, is not the place for such bombast.

Most of the comments in this thread related, not to Kidney being the best man for the job, but to the fact that Kidney, for his own failings, is also the most pubic face of an entire setup that is failing. Most weren't saying that Kidney wasn't at fault; they were saying that things for Ireland were bad and would be bad, that some of this could be attributed to Kidney but not all of it. I hope you return to the forum in a year's time, after what I expect will be a time of big transition and little success for Ireland, to remind the other posters in this thread of how correct their own assertions were...

[Setanta]

I'm sure, unfortunately, that that was a typo; but I really liked the pubic face of Irish Rugby!

[Shan]

I fecking knew you'd be bumping this thread D/L ya big sack sniffer. I reckon you must have destroyed your trousers when you received this news.


Gwan for feck sake.

[rumncoke]

Baj

Leinster game /Munster game--- B-llsh-t

You play the game around the players you've got and and the opposition you face.

laws of the game may change but the game is still XV big guys playing against XV big guys.

Kidney got a grand slam where EoS failed because he played to the backs and had a season where Ireland played England and France at home before the Golden Wonders faded into the sunset.

Thereafter he was slow to call changes and continued to play players who were past their sell by or at least their best years were memories .

[Bart S]

So D/L - Of the REALISTIC options, who do you think should get the job???