Some IRFU rune-reading...

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darkside lightside
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Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by darkside lightside » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:18 pm

It's been very dull around here since I last checked, let's liven things up:

Is Declan doubling down, or being parked on the sidelines??
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Shan
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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by Shan » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:59 pm

If that's supposed to liven things up remind me never to accept an invitation to one of your parties. :D
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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by BaggyTrousers » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:03 am

Self-advertising again ya chube, had you had the decency to mention FRU you would have saved me the trouble of clicking the link to that most boring of websites.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN :duh:
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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by rumncoke » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:19 pm

My feel is that DK will step down after the 6Ns and or after the Lions squad is announced at that point in time I expect several of the old hands to announce their retirement -- which will of course mean that the squad he inherited from EoS no longer exists and the automatic names on the team sheet will no longer be there and the dynamics of the squad will be totally different because when those players retire the remaining players will find that the difference between themselves and others in the Provincial squads is not as significant as they believe it to be.

Is Mcfadden that much better than Cave is Earls that much better

There are several promising backrow forwards

eg take BoD and D'Arcy out of the equation you could be selecting any two from six.

Take PoC and DoC out of equation you could perm two from five or six.

In such a situation DK would find it extremely difficult to justify his apparent Munster bias and there would be no conservative fall back options available.

Tactically Ireland will always play a conserative game at International level we lack the depth of quality players to adopt any other approach. There are normally one or two players approaching world class on an IRISH TEAM compared to say 7 or 8 in any ABs team. If you think otherwise you are deluding yourself.

The only player I would consider approaching world class in the Irish squad would be Kearney ( BoD was PoC was Ferris was but at this time they are definitely no longer world class )
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Russ
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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by Russ » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:20 pm

rumncoke wrote:
Tactically Ireland will always play a conservative game at International level we lack the depth of quality players to adopt any other approach. There are normally one or two players approaching world class on an IRISH TEAM compared to say 7 or 8 in any ABs team. If you think otherwise you are deluding yourself.
Half of our player pool plays one type of game, the game that the top International and HEC sides play

Half plays another, Ireland under Kidney has played this type of game

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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by rumncoke » Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:54 pm

Russ what is played at HEC doesn't matter a fig .

Ireland have some of the best club sides in Europe

The style and the tactics of an International side reflect the strenght of the opposition and when Ireland play any of the top 6 they are normally the weaker side and other sides in the top ten Ireland on occasion have been stronger but most of the time results would reflect playing a home or away.advantage.

Fact wake up smell the coffee I've watched Ireland for the best part of 50 years and it has been true for most them.
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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by Russ » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:03 pm

rumncoke wrote:Russ what is played at HEC doesn't matter a fig .

Ireland have some of the best club sides in Europe

The style and the tactics of an International side reflect the strenght of the opposition and when Ireland play any of the top 6 they are normally the weaker side and other sides in the top ten Ireland on occasion have been stronger but most of the time results would reflect playing a home or away.advantage.

Fact wake up smell the coffee I've watched Ireland for the best part of 50 years and it has been true for most them.
Then why don't you understand that the most efficient way to play International rugby is to play as the players know how to play?

Who cares if you have watched for 50 years? Does that give you more right to comment than a 13 year old at their first game? Or a 30 year old who has been watching for a number of years?

The strength of the opposition. Do you really think there are more than 3 or 4 international sides out there, better than Clermont or Toulon at full strength?

Wake up and smell what you are shovelling, as the game has moved on, all the Irish provinces know this, the national side hasn't realised

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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by darkside lightside » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:28 pm

Ireland lack quality players? :scratch: :scratch:

QUICK someone tell the ERC that they've been somehow tricked into handing Irish teams the HEC 5 times in the last 7 years!!!

Ireland have plenty of good quality players, playing for good quality teams - easily as many as Australia and more relevantly, more than Wales. I never know whether to grind my teeth with frustration, or simply laugh, when I see the OTT descriptions of Wales in the aftermath of the recent procession of victories over Ireland - seeing these guys, who are routinely bettered for their province by Irish opponents, talked up as some kind of superhuman mega-team..

The difference between Kidney and Gatland is that Gatland, a) picks the right players, and b) employs tactics that suit them.

Kidney's playbook contains 2 plays: 1) in our half, kick the ball to the opposition and hope they make a mistake 2) in their half, pop the ball repeatedly back to a static forward, for a succession of 6 inch carries, before knocking on or getting isolated and conceding a penalty.

Like I said in the piece, I have my fingers crossed that the Foley announcement heralds a sidelining of Kidney - and with an interesting-looking (if sub-optimal) selection, it will be interesting to see if there is a step change in tactics and the general standard of play.

Time for Kiss to step up - tbh he has yet to convince that he has got it in him to coach attack at this level.. Although in his defence, the NZ tour sounded like a total shambles - BOD himself said that it was a mess, and nobody knew who to talk to about plays etc. We'll see tomorrow..
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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by rumncoke » Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:57 am

D/L when the lions are announced the lack of Irish players in the squad will reflect the quality of the Irish team at this time.

Russ I expect sh-t from a 13 year because he has seen nothing and has nothing to base his judgement on if you don't understand the difference between club rugby and International rugby there is little point in explaining anything.

Its the same difference between a local government election and a general election one matter and one thinks it does.
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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by Bart S » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:57 pm

darkside lightside wrote:Ireland lack quality players? :scratch: :scratch:

QUICK someone tell the ERC that they've been somehow tricked into handing Irish teams the HEC 5 times in the last 7 years!!!

Ireland have plenty of good quality players, playing for good quality teams - easily as many as Australia and more relevantly, more than Wales. I never know whether to grind my teeth with frustration, or simply laugh, when I see the OTT descriptions of Wales in the aftermath of the recent procession of victories over Ireland - seeing these guys, who are routinely bettered for their province by Irish opponents, talked up as some kind of superhuman mega-team..
Being far too simplistic here D/L. The Welsh have their players spread around rather than concentrated in a couple of teams therefore of course their teams are going to be weaker. Does the fact that McFadden plays on the wing for the european champs, yet North and Halfpenny "only" play for the Scarlets and Cardiff mean that he's definitely a better winger? Wales success has been built on a back row which is often picked from 3 separate sides, ditto at half back and the back 3.

Guys like Cullen, Jennings, D'arcy, Reddan and McFadden have been instrumental in Leinster's success yet I haven't seen anything in their international performances to suggest that they can become top quality players at that level, which is a step up. In the case of these guys I think it's the higher quality opposition they're up against rather than being entirely down to the different coaches they are operating under.

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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by darkside lightside » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:36 pm

Bart S wrote:Being far too simplistic here D/L. The Welsh have their players spread around rather than concentrated in a couple of teams therefore of course their teams are going to be weaker.
This is actually not the case - look at the current Welsh squad, 36 names of which 31 come from Ospreys, Scarlets or Cardiff - as well as a couple of French-based guys, and a solitary Dragon... And this has been the case for years, with the main three sides providing substantially all of the international side, in varying proportions depending on form. In other words, just like Ireland.
Bart S wrote:Guys like Cullen, Jennings, D'arcy, Reddan and McFadden have been instrumental in Leinster's success yet I haven't seen anything in their international performances to suggest that they can become top quality players at that level, which is a step up. In the case of these guys I think it's the higher quality opposition they're up against rather than being entirely down to the different coaches they are operating under.
with respect, this short paragraph is shot through with so many contradictions and fallacies that I don't know where to start.. Leaving aside the circular reasoning re Cullen & Jennings (i.e. you haven't been excited by their international selections, because to all intents and purposes, they haven't had any!), the inclusion of D'Arcy in the list - the argument seems to be (and its one I've heard before) that there is a big step up to international rugby from club rugby, so players who can cut it for their club mightn't necessarily be able to do so for their country. Two things, firstly, these days the gap between the upper end of the club game and the international game is pretty modest, if it exists at all; secondly, if this is the case, then logically the step must be even greater from the likes of complete also-rans in the Heineken Cup like Cardiff Blues and Scarlets than it is for multiple winners Leinster and Munster?

In any case, the whole idea that seems to have taken hold, that Wales are stronger than Ireland kind of falls down with any kind of look at their results. In fairness you responded before Wales recent two home defeats to Argentina and Samoa - however I wasn't overly surprised - I have been saying for years that Wales are a thoroughly ordinary side, in fact their win ratio for the period that Kidney has been in charge is even worse than Ireland's (just 45%), they haven't beaten a single SH side in that period, and have managed to lose against Samoa and draw against Fiji.. A side bristling with HEC winners and players who routinely hand the Welsh boys their collective bottoms, week-in week-out, should be brushing them aside fairly comfortably..
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Re: Some IRFU rune-reading...

Post by BaggyTrousers » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:03 pm

darkside lightside wrote:
Bart S wrote:Being far too simplistic here D/L. The Welsh have their players spread around rather than concentrated in a couple of teams therefore of course their teams are going to be weaker.
This is actually not the case - look at the current Welsh squad, 36 names of which 31 come from Ospreys, Scarlets or Cardiff - as well as a couple of French-based guys, and a solitary Dragon... And this has been the case for years, with the main three sides providing substantially all of the international side, in varying proportions depending on form. In other words, just like Ireland.
Bart S wrote:Guys like Cullen, Jennings, D'arcy, Reddan and McFadden have been instrumental in Leinster's success yet I haven't seen anything in their international performances to suggest that they can become top quality players at that level, which is a step up. In the case of these guys I think it's the higher quality opposition they're up against rather than being entirely down to the different coaches they are operating under.
with respect, this short paragraph is shot through with so many contradictions and fallacies that I don't know where to start.. Leaving aside the circular reasoning re Cullen & Jennings (i.e. you haven't been excited by their international selections, because to all intents and purposes, they haven't had any!), the inclusion of D'Arcy in the list - the argument seems to be (and its one I've heard before) that there is a big step up to international rugby from club rugby, so players who can cut it for their club mightn't necessarily be able to do so for their country. Two things, firstly, these days the gap between the upper end of the club game and the international game is pretty modest, if it exists at all; secondly, if this is the case, then logically the step must be even greater from the likes of complete also-rans in the Heineken Cup like Cardiff Blues and Scarlets than it is for multiple winners Leinster and Munster?

In any case, the whole idea that seems to have taken hold, that Wales are stronger than Ireland kind of falls down with any kind of look at their results. In fairness you responded before Wales recent two home defeats to Argentina and Samoa - however I wasn't overly surprised - I have been saying for years that Wales are a thoroughly ordinary side, in fact their win ratio for the period that Kidney has been in charge is even worse than Ireland's (just 45%), they haven't beaten a single SH side in that period, and have managed to lose against Samoa and draw against Fiji.. A side bristling with HEC winners and players who routinely hand the Welsh boys their collective bottoms, week-in week-out, should be brushing them aside fairly comfortably..
The usual dumb denial about why HC success & international success don't go hand in hand. However I am not going to explain it to you again
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Support the team and coaching staff. Forget the rest,BUT NEVER MOVE ON.

FIRFU - FU'CK YOU ONE AND ALL, CAVING IN TO SPONSORS, SACKING THE INNOCENT FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE, SHAMEFUL BASTA'RDS. YOU'VE LOST MY SUPPORT & I HOPE MORE ULSTERMEN & WOMEN

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