Ireland vs France

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skiboo
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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by skiboo »

Lots of positives in the game for instance line outs and defence but backs were never ever going to score from a passing move due to a combination of the weather and Murrays shocking slow pass. However his style was on the mark for the day but on dry ground his look arround, pick up, four steps to the left or right then a loop pass requires an exceptional out half to get the backs moving.
Having watched the game yesterday I am amazed the so called media experts failed to see,comment or discuss the difficulty Ireland had in the scrum where they were destroyed and by the end of the game the front row were clearly exhausted and were injuries waiting to happen. Maybe some of our in house experts would like to comment on the front row and what appeared to me to be a lack of grunt coming from the second row and back row.
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fuzzylogic
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Re: Ireland vs France

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by rumncoke » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:40 am

Mccarty is not an International player his mind was at least a minute behind the game . a sort of a " he's passed to me -- I think i was meant to be running before I caught the ball -- at least I caught it this time . before I was tackled .
Paul O'Connell has made himself one of the best in the world over the past 7 or 8 years playing like this. At least 3 or 4 times a game he likes to take the ball standing at first receiver, static and loses the team ground every time!
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fuzzylogic
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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by fuzzylogic »

by rumncoke » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:40 am

Mccarty is not an International player his mind was at least a minute behind the game . a sort of a " he's passed to me -- I think i was meant to be running before I caught the ball -- at least I caught it this time . before I was tackled .
Paul O'Connell has made himself one of the best in the world over the past 7 or 8 years playing like this. At least 3 or 4 times a game he likes to take the ball standing at first receiver, static and loses the team ground every time!
Mary had a little lamb . . .
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Hans Indaruck
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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by Hans Indaruck »

skiboo wrote:Lots of positives in the game for instance line outs and defence but backs were never ever going to score from a passing move due to a combination of the weather and Murrays shocking slow pass. However his style was on the mark for the day but on dry ground his look arround, pick up, four steps to the left or right then a loop pass requires an exceptional out half to get the backs moving.
Having watched the game yesterday I am amazed the so called media experts failed to see,comment or discuss the difficulty Ireland had in the scrum where they were destroyed and by the end of the game the front row were clearly exhausted and were injuries waiting to happen. Maybe some of our in house experts would like to comment on the front row and what appeared to me to be a lack of grunt coming from the second row and back row.


I'm not sue that I would necessarily classify myself as an expert [an 'ex' is a has been a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure - so I wouldn't warm to the definition!]. However, as a fully paid up member of the FRU for (too) many years - here goes:

The primary role of the front row is to be a conduit for the colective energy of the scrum to ensure the safe retention of the ball. The THP should bring the scrum in providing the hit and seeking to protect the hooker whilst at the same time dictating the direction and agression of the scrum going forward on his own ball. On the opposition ball he disrupts by either seeking to change the direction of the scrum or by directly putting pressure on the opposition hooker (whilst driving straight and true with head above hips of course!). The hooker's job used to be to hook the ball back but that is now an old fashioned and somewhat redundant concept (given that scrum halves now seemingly have licence to put the ball at the No 8's feet at the put in!) so he has more of a direct scrumming and disruptive role - with 'hooking' per se only employed as a last resort! The LHP must first and foremost provide a clear channel for the ball on his own team's put in, whilst on the other teams put in his role is to disrupt eithe by driving up underneath the opposition THP or by contributing to a wheel by means of a co-ordinated move with his own THP and either giving (or pulling) or driving at an appropriate angle (whilst of course remaining straight and true with head above hips. It is less likely that a LHP will collapse a scrum and much more likely to be the THP (aided and abetted by the hooker).
The 2nd rows provide the primary force of the drive along with the No 8 (on opposition ball) with the flankers driving in to ensure all of the force is channelled and concentrated as much as possible.
So why did Ireland's scrum fail so much yesterday? Well initially Cian Healy (not for the first time in a match) had serious trouble retaining his bind (which must be maintained on the body of his opposite number throughout the scrum) - once you lose you bind you are open to being manipulated by your oppo and of course you run the risk of being pinged for a penalty. It is hard to judge how much 'grunt' was being put in by the 2nd rows, but if the back row are not doing their job, which was the case many times yesterday, then the scrum is immediately weakened and you start to go backwards or down!
In sum the Irish pack were not cohesive in the scrum with some of the basics failing to appear. It is rarely just the front row's fault for a misfiring scrum.rather it is a combination of failures with the back row often neglecting to get the basics right all of which is not helped if the engine room are not putting in 100%.

Here endeth the lesson! My view may be an old fashioned one and smacks a bit of stating the obvious, but if you examine teams who scrummage well you will find that it boils down to getting the basics right. Being a great ball handling forward is all very well and has its place in the modern game, but you have to secure the ball first!! :whistle:
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Russ
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Re: Ireland vs France

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Just reading a lot of brown nosing to Anthony Foley on MF, saying he is the single reason we managed a draw yesterday.

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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by big mervyn »

Hans Indaruck wrote:Here endeth the lesson! My view may be an old fashioned one and smacks a bit of stating the obvious, but if you examine teams who scrummage well you will find that it boils down to getting the basics right. Being a great ball handling forward is all very well and has its place in the modern game, but you have to secure the ball first!! :whistle:
Ireland weren't helped yesterday by the fact that DK obviously had zero confidence in his front row replacements. Ross was obviously punctured, yet laboured on 'till the end, to what end I'm not sure?
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Re: Ireland vs France

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Russ wrote:Just reading a lot of brown nosing to Anthony Foley on MF, saying he is the single reason we managed a draw yesterday.

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Reason we managed a draw is the French were so crap
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big mervyn
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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by big mervyn »

We've been on the wrong side of a lot of "margins" this season - all of them in fact, going back to the SA game.
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Ireland vs France

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big mervyn wrote:
Snipe Watson wrote: 4 players couldn't stop Picamoles.
You might well be right there Snipe, but it looked to me as if we'd collectively switched off and weren't even considering the quick pen which was criminal, especially given the time on the clock.
Correct and the captain was guldering wake up.
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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by shamalicious »

On another note, how awful was the Beeb's commentary? It took Matthews and Moore an absolute age to realise it was Reddan injured and not Madigan. Luke won a penalty from a ruck and they started to gush over BOD and it was only after the replay they realised it was Skymarshall! Did they also refer to Jamie Healy at one point too? Dire!
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pythagoras
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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by pythagoras »

shamalicious wrote: Did they also refer to Jamie Healy at one point too? Dire!
It's an age thing that affects older people generally and not just commentators.

I watched the Beeb in preference to RTE, Ryle's voice grates on me as does his tendency to shriek a player's name when he thinks they've scored
Last edited by pythagoras on Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
will+i+am
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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by will+i+am »

Poor game we all agree! Just commenting to say that I hope the guys who were on the 8.50 enterprise last night travelling in first have stinking hangovers today. All up for a good day, and not condoning the many of us who had one too many - but when u r slobbering about fee&@ans and nig@&rs in a train with young kids and supporters from all religions and creed on the same carriage it's disgusting ESP when they are in Ulster shirts!!!
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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by Bangors »

Don't claim to be an expert on the scrum
BUT can never understand why, when under severe pressure, the ball
is held in the scrum in stead of being moved away as quickly as possible
How often do we see a penalty being conceded because of slow ball ?
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Re: Ireland vs France

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will+i+am wrote:Poor game we all agree! Just commenting to say that I hope the guys who were on the 8.50 enterprise last night travelling in first have stinking hangovers today. All up for a good day, and not condoning the many of us who had one too many - but when u r slobbering about fee&@ans and nig@&rs in a train with young kids and supporters from all religions and creed on the same carriage it's disgusting ESP when they are in Ulster shirts!!!
@rseholes.
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Re: Ireland vs France

Post by Bart S »

HammerTime wrote:
will+i+am wrote:Poor game we all agree! Just commenting to say that I hope the guys who were on the 8.50 enterprise last night travelling in first have stinking hangovers today. All up for a good day, and not condoning the many of us who had one too many - but when u r slobbering about fee&@ans and nig@&rs in a train with young kids and supporters from all religions and creed on the same carriage it's disgusting ESP when they are in Ulster shirts!!!
@rseholes.
They're obviously too thick to think about the make up of the team they are supporting before singing these songs. A bit like in football when you get some morons at certain clubs singing sectarian or racist songs whilst happily cheering on players of a different religion or colour.

Shame Trevor Brennan wasn't in the carriage to sort them out.... :stir:
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