Steady as she goes.

[Spiffsson]

All the comments from players in the Ireland camp seem to emphasize the guiding philosophy - in Joe's squad you have to know your place in the grand scheme of things, get the basics dead right, do your homework, aim at being an efficient cog in the machine above all things, follow the game plan to the letter etc. Fair enough, this has proved successful so far and there were signs of a looser approach against Scotland in the last 6N game.
In this approach there seems little room for individual brilliance, and you get the feeling that players will be chopped for an adventurous piece of play that comes adrift.
This makes it rather difficult for the fringe players trying to make a mark against Wales. On the one hand they know that they will have to make no mistakes or they are out of the squad, yet on the other, they will be somewhat stifled in their freedom to show what they can do on a rugby pitch. I fear that we may see a side playing safety first rugby by numbers, with no flair, risk taking or excitement, an over emphasis on kicking and the safe option of going to ground rather than keeping the ball alive. Great teams, like NZ, play with great discipline, yet reserve the flair for the match winning moments when it's needed, and can turn it on when required. I don't see Ireland doing this, and anyway, apart from a handful, probably don't have the players to do it anyway. The current Ireland approach may work well against lesser teams but won't win the RWC.
Looking forward to a good game against Wales, but I am not holding my breath, and doubt that we will see the best of players who I feel will be holding something back through fear of screwing up the game plan, getting cut from the squad, and trying to look too good.
Flame away!

[Snipe Watson]

All the comments from players in the Ireland camp seem to emphasize the guiding philosophy - in Joe's squad you have to know your place in the grand scheme of things, get the basics dead right, do your homework, aim at being an efficient cog in the machine above all things, follow the game plan to the letter etc. Fair enough, this has proved successful so far and there were signs of a looser approach against Scotland in the last 6N game.
In this approach there seems little room for individual brilliance, and you get the feeling that players will be chopped for an adventurous piece of play that comes adrift.
This makes it rather difficult for the fringe players trying to make a mark against Wales. On the one hand they know that they will have to make no mistakes or they are out of the squad, yet on the other, they will be somewhat stifled in their freedom to show what they can do on a rugby pitch. I fear that we may see a side playing safety first rugby by numbers, with no flair, risk taking or excitement, an over emphasis on kicking and the safe option of going to ground rather than keeping the ball alive. Great teams, like NZ, play with great discipline, yet reserve the flair for the match winning moments when it's needed, and can turn it on when required. I don't see Ireland doing this, and anyway, apart from a handful, probably don't have the players to do it anyway. The current Ireland approach may work well against lesser teams but won't win the RWC.
Looking forward to a good game against Wales, but I am not holding my breath, and doubt that we will see the best of players who I feel will be holding something back through fear of screwing up the game plan, getting cut from the squad, and trying to look too good.
Flame away!

Couple of things Spiffy
Re paragraph 1 I don't think we have any players with individual genius. So that's not an issue. Madigan thinks he's a genius, but that's different and he's wrong. Geniuses are few and far between. Ireland under Joe needs and has a system. This group of players will win more games and go farther in tournaments with a solid system into which all players fully commit than if they try to express themselves.
Para 2. Joe will not be looking at players who excel or produce moments of sublime skill. That's the job of the fans and the press. Joe will be looking for guys who do their job without fear or favour. The best way for Cave or Tuohy to express themselves and play their way into the RWC squad is by sticking rigidly to the game plan and delivering what the coach asks. If we are to beat NZ or RSA we will need to beat them attritionally. We cannot out play the All Blacks, but we can grind them into submission. The Boks and Blacks have a massive weight of expectation on them and that is their Achilles heel. Stop them playing and in the final stages they will make mistakes. Not so much in group games, but in the knockout games the pressure tells.
No question, we will not see much to enthral tomorrow.

[solidarity]

All the comments from players in the Ireland camp seem to emphasize the guiding philosophy - in Joe's squad you have to know your place in the grand scheme of things, get the basics dead right, do your homework, aim at being an efficient cog in the machine above all things, follow the game plan to the letter etc. Fair enough, this has proved successful so far and there were signs of a looser approach against Scotland in the last 6N game.
In this approach there seems little room for individual brilliance, and you get the feeling that players will be chopped for an adventurous piece of play that comes adrift.
This makes it rather difficult for the fringe players trying to make a mark against Wales. On the one hand they know that they will have to make no mistakes or they are out of the squad, yet on the other, they will be somewhat stifled in their freedom to show what they can do on a rugby pitch. I fear that we may see a side playing safety first rugby by numbers, with no flair, risk taking or excitement, an over emphasis on kicking and the safe option of going to ground rather than keeping the ball alive. Great teams, like NZ, play with great discipline, yet reserve the flair for the match winning moments when it's needed, and can turn it on when required. I don't see Ireland doing this, and anyway, apart from a handful, probably don't have the players to do it anyway. The current Ireland approach may work well against lesser teams but won't win the RWC.
Looking forward to a good game against Wales, but I am not holding my breath, and doubt that we will see the best of players who I feel will be holding something back through fear of screwing up the game plan, getting cut from the squad, and trying to look too good.
Flame away!

This systems based approach sounds very much like Gatland as well. So we probably can't expect much to thrill the soul tomorrow.
From another perspective, it's only when the systems are working well that individual flashes of inspiration can flourish, so long as players aren't too scared to do something out of the ordinary.

[Russ]

Difference between Gatland and Schmidt is that Schmidt coaches the gameplan and core skills. Gatland shouts a gameplan then blames the players for being brad pitt

[Spiffsson]

All the comments from players in the Ireland camp seem to emphasize the guiding philosophy - in Joe's squad you have to know your place in the grand scheme of things, get the basics dead right, do your homework, aim at being an efficient cog in the machine above all things, follow the game plan to the letter etc. Fair enough, this has proved successful so far and there were signs of a looser approach against Scotland in the last 6N game.
In this approach there seems little room for individual brilliance, and you get the feeling that players will be chopped for an adventurous piece of play that comes adrift.
This makes it rather difficult for the fringe players trying to make a mark against Wales. On the one hand they know that they will have to make no mistakes or they are out of the squad, yet on the other, they will be somewhat stifled in their freedom to show what they can do on a rugby pitch. I fear that we may see a side playing safety first rugby by numbers, with no flair, risk taking or excitement, an over emphasis on kicking and the safe option of going to ground rather than keeping the ball alive. Great teams, like NZ, play with great discipline, yet reserve the flair for the match winning moments when it's needed, and can turn it on when required. I don't see Ireland doing this, and anyway, apart from a handful, probably don't have the players to do it anyway. The current Ireland approach may work well against lesser teams but won't win the RWC.
Looking forward to a good game against Wales, but I am not holding my breath, and doubt that we will see the best of players who I feel will be holding something back through fear of screwing up the game plan, getting cut from the squad, and trying to look too good.
Flame away!

This systems based approach sounds very much like Gatland as well. So we probably can't expect much to thrill the soul tomorrow.
From another perspective, it's only when the systems are working well that individual flashes of inspiration can flourish, so long as players aren't too scared to do something out of the ordinary.

This is the crux of the whole thing, Solid. I believe that, by and large, under Joe's regime they probably will be scared to do something out of the ordinary, since all it might gain them is a rocket up the arrse and a ticket home

[solidarity]

All the comments from players in the Ireland camp seem to emphasize the guiding philosophy - in Joe's squad you have to know your place in the grand scheme of things, get the basics dead right, do your homework, aim at being an efficient cog in the machine above all things, follow the game plan to the letter etc. Fair enough, this has proved successful so far and there were signs of a looser approach against Scotland in the last 6N game.
In this approach there seems little room for individual brilliance, and you get the feeling that players will be chopped for an adventurous piece of play that comes adrift.
This makes it rather difficult for the fringe players trying to make a mark against Wales. On the one hand they know that they will have to make no mistakes or they are out of the squad, yet on the other, they will be somewhat stifled in their freedom to show what they can do on a rugby pitch. I fear that we may see a side playing safety first rugby by numbers, with no flair, risk taking or excitement, an over emphasis on kicking and the safe option of going to ground rather than keeping the ball alive. Great teams, like NZ, play with great discipline, yet reserve the flair for the match winning moments when it's needed, and can turn it on when required. I don't see Ireland doing this, and anyway, apart from a handful, probably don't have the players to do it anyway. The current Ireland approach may work well against lesser teams but won't win the RWC.
Looking forward to a good game against Wales, but I am not holding my breath, and doubt that we will see the best of players who I feel will be holding something back through fear of screwing up the game plan, getting cut from the squad, and trying to look too good.
Flame away!

This systems based approach sounds very much like Gatland as well. So we probably can't expect much to thrill the soul tomorrow.
From another perspective, it's only when the systems are working well that individual flashes of inspiration can flourish, so long as players aren't too scared to do something out of the ordinary.

This is the crux of the whole thing, Solid. I believe that, by and large, under Joe's regime they probably will be scared to do something out of the ordinary, since all it might gain them is a rocket up the arrse and a ticket home

I suppose we'll see tomorrow which team is most scared.

[againstthehead]

World cups are rarely won by 'something out of the ordinary'. Defence, set-piece, tactical kicking and goal kicking are the 4 pillars with intensity/fitness the foundation and Ireland aren't too shabby in any of those departments.

Joe is the man. That said, he can only do so much with the bunch of players he has. I expect a semi-final is on the cards. Anything further would be an incredible achievement.

[rumncoke]

Spiff

Internationals areon many occassions not won but lost by that i mean that it is easier to coach a sound defence than to teach ( if that is possible) flair . Thus games are lost due to mistakes by defending teams rather than by the genius of attacking teams , A mistake can take the form of a missed tackle , a stupid penalty or the idiot who throws a loose pass or kicks the ball at the opposition when the defence is unorganised.

Players don't get picked because they have flair. In truth few actually possess it, what some consider flair, is pace applied at the right time, plus the awareness of supporting players and when to pass ,quite a number of players have the first requirement pace, some may have the second, the third is extremely rare.

No most players are picked because they are trusted by the coach to play a game to a format , understand and perform the roles assigned to them so that the players around can also play within that format . There are very few games which rely on team effort rather than individual performance to the same extent as rugby.

The ABS play as a team and the main stay of their team work is supporting the man with the ball and the player with the ball looking for and aware of that support -- they seldom if ever play beyond their support or become isolated from that support.

[bazzaj]

World cups are rarely won by 'something out of the ordinary'. Defence, set-piece, tactical kicking and goal kicking are the 4 pillars with intensity/fitness the foundation and Ireland aren't too shabby in any of those departments.

Joe is the man. That said, he can only do so much with the bunch of players he has. I expect a semi-final is on the cards. Anything further would be an incredible achievement.

Thats interesting lets look at that.
At this time I have no idea what the outcome will be!

1987 All Blacks- That was a team that was out of the ordinary.In my view the best side ever well ahead of its time.
1991 Australia- On the back of Campos (and Lynaghs) brilliance out of the ordinary.
1995- SA- based on the ATH argument
1999-Austalia- As above with AGTH
2003- England- Bit of both
2007- SA-As above with ATH
2011-All Blacks- As above with ATH (Carter was absent).

So professionalism wins the day in the modern game as ATH says.
What a shame-, I would so much rather watch the BODs, Robinsons, Williams, Campos or Blancos of this world being the difference with their individual brilliance rather than watching well drilled professional sides win the day with their set plays and instruction.
I think I am just a sad old rugby romantic but no amount of romanticism will persuade me that Ireland can win the WC.
They have not enough genuine quality which only the SH sides possess currently.

[againstthehead]

at full strength Ireland might just have the quality to win it if they can top the group and get a dicky QF. Healy is an incredible loose head at full strength. SOB is a monster. Best is quality when he can throw darts. POC is still awesome if he has the players around him. So a nucleus of established and quality players up front that can match anyone 'on their day'.

Murray is a fabulous kicking 9 'on his day', Likewise sexton can control a game and kick points. Centres solid if unspectacular. Tommy, Trimble and Kearney are super under the high ball both in defence and in attack and that will be a major weopen for a lot of sides come world cup.

Like most NH sides, Ireland have little depth. One or two injuries and it's all fekked.

Under any coach I'd day Ireland didn't have a snowballs chance in hell but Joe knows how to win games. I think tactically we'll be as good as anyone.

[bazzaj]

Didnt the All Blacks go down to their 4th choice 10 when they won it last?
Thats the sort of depth you need.
Our outside backs are reasonable but compared to the SH sides we are light years behind.

[Snipe Watson]

Didnt the All Blacks go down to their 4th choice 10 when they won it last?
Thats the sort of depth you need.
Our outside backs are reasonable but compared to the SH sides we are light years behind.

I don't agree at all Baz. The All Blacks when on their game are comfortably the best team and backline. Other than that Ireland are as good as anyone.

[againstthehead]

Yeah, I'd say not too much between ireland and the boks. Oz seem to have got up to this level too under the radar. Home advantage brings England into it. Wales could go okay if they have players fit and France have been turd for years so are bound to make the final...

Could be a fabulous tournament. I actually like that Wales, England and Oz are in the same group - that's going to be fascinating during the group stage and then some big heavyweight encounters for the QFs.... AWESOME!

[bazzaj]

Ok lads I am always harsh when it comes to Ireland and we are now the 2nd ranked side in the World.
I am still however very much a rugby purist and out wide we lack the cutting edge of a Habana, Le Roux, AAC, Folau or even New Zealands reserves tthat make the difference.
We are pretty much in contention because we have Joe and I would go as far to say that any of the sh sides have him they would be nailed on to win the world cup.
Pity we didn't have Joe last time out when we had players of a quality that could have won it.

[BaggyTrousers]

at full strength Ireland might just have the quality to win it if they can top the group and get a dicky QF. Healy is an incredible loose head at full strength. SOB is a monster. Best is quality when he can throw darts. POC is still awesome if he has the players around him. So a nucleus of established and quality players up front that can match anyone 'on their day'.

Murray is a fabulous kicking 9 'on his day', Likewise sexton can control a game and kick points. Centres solid if unspectacular. Tommy, Trimble and Kearney are super under the high ball both in defence and in attack and that will be a major weopen for a lot of sides come world cup.

Like most NH sides, Ireland have little depth. One or two injuries and it's all fekked.

Under any coach I'd day Ireland didn't have a snowballs chance in hell but Joe knows how to win games. I think tactically we'll be as good as anyone.

Unusually sensible for you. I concur....... However they are certain to cop one or two vital players injured and therefore doomed to fail, probably falling to France and getting the Q-F that sends them home.

The end.