Six Nations Week 3

[ruckover]

The only thing more annoying than Ireland in that game was the commentator's inability to distinguish between McCloskey and Henshaw. Even worse, he still referred to Henshaw as McCloskey long after McCloskey had been substituted.

[BaggyTrousers]

What's up with Trimble this season, doesn't kill dead things anymore?

I wouldn't be surprised if he's dropped for next one Baggy.

Lack of alternatives aiding him at present. Just struggling to get back to his best, but he's one of the coaches men and never makes a mug of himself.

[againstthehead]

From an Ireland perspective, the 1st half was worse than I was expecting and the second half better. Ireland were again pretty hard to beat which is all you can really ask for, for this limited side. Plenty of effort and well organised but Billy showed what an explosive carrier can do. Henderson, SOB, or a fit healy would do a similar job and it be without all 3 is unfortunate. Ireland's plan was to stay in the game and see if they could nick a win and when England were down to 14 with the 1st binning, it looked on. Eventually the power came through and yet again, Ireland were blown off the park.

Fairly abysmal game overall. It's odd that we have all these Southern Hemisphere coaches yet their sides play pretty NH gameplans. Is it all down to the conditions or do they think the players don't have the skill sets? Maybe a mixture of both.

Not entirely convinced by England. Some talented players alright but still not sure what they are trying to do. Still early days for Eddie though and at least he's getting everyone behind him.

[Bart S]

Have never been a huge fan of Rory Best as captain and from what i have seen so far for Ireland i really think a change needs to be made post 6 nations. He has been ok at best in each game so far and i honestly think he is a guy who could well do without the extra pressure of captaincy, given the frailties he shows at times. I know he is a great senior player etc but IMHO the captaincy is not for him. The problem i guess then is who gets it - Murray probably for me.

Andrew Trimble is trying his heart out but he is nowhere near the player he was pre injury a couple of seasons ago. He has played a fair few games this season for ulster and ireland and i am struggling to think of a handful of meaningful breaks he has made all season, which just isn't good enough for a winger.Yes, some of it is down to joe's tactics but at ukster Craig Gilroy has been a lot more effective. Yes Gilroy has work to do defensively, as do Zebo, Matt Healy and whoever else there may be, but that can be worked on.

[Bart S]

I fear as part of the "experimenting" for Italy we'll see Zebo at full back instead of Kearney. Not fair on Zebo as he is not an experienced fullback and won't be given a chance in his best position, yet it will just be used as an excuse to continue with Rob Kearney as fullback for the big games, as the "alternative" isn't better. The fact that the best Irish fullback (Payne) isn't even considered for a run in that position is just well.....

I thought McCloskey did well and seems like most others did also, but Joe's comments more than suggest that he may make way for the Henshaw-Payne combination to return, or maybe we'll even see Luke Marshall. Stu deserves a few games under his be,t now but suspect he won't get that.

[Russ]

I fear as part of the "experimenting" for Italy we'll see Zebo at full back instead of Kearney. Not fair on Zebo as he is not an experienced fullback and won't be given a chance in his best position, yet it will just be used as an excuse to continue with Rob Kearney as fullback for the big games, as the "alternative" isn't better. The fact that the best Irish fullback (Payne) isn't even considered for a run in that position is just well.....

I thought McCloskey did well and seems like most others did also, but Joe's comments more than suggest that he may make way for the Henshaw-Payne combination to return, or maybe we'll even see Luke Marshall. Stu deserves a few games under his be,t now but suspect he won't get that.

Murray
Jackson
Urls
McCloskey
Marshall
Gilroy
Henshaw

That is Ireland's most attacking backline

[rumncoke]

The result unfortunately may inhibit experimentation to a large extent .

As McCloskey had a sound game and was a major influence in the defence in the first half he might well be maintained at 12 with Payne going to 15

Don't see to many changes and while some consider Trimble has so far failed to shine the fact is the ball has seldom got beyond the centres and Sextons kicking has seldom been sharp enough to to permit a chase but has been long to enable a defence to be formed across the half way .

Shining in those circumstances is difficult .

As for the vinaloo 8 he looks good in a team who win a lot of ball but against a team who run the ball his defence is weak because he is a slow turner and extremely one paced Hard to tackle and bring to ground but that is his sole asset .




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[Bart S]

I fear as part of the "experimenting" for Italy we'll see Zebo at full back instead of Kearney. Not fair on Zebo as he is not an experienced fullback and won't be given a chance in his best position, yet it will just be used as an excuse to continue with Rob Kearney as fullback for the big games, as the "alternative" isn't better. The fact that the best Irish fullback (Payne) isn't even considered for a run in that position is just well.....

I thought McCloskey did well and seems like most others did also, but Joe's comments more than suggest that he may make way for the Henshaw-Payne combination to return, or maybe we'll even see Luke Marshall. Stu deserves a few games under his be,t now but suspect he won't get that.

Murray
Jackson
Urls
McCloskey
Marshall
Gilroy
Henshaw

That is Ireland's most attacking backline

for attacking maybe, but if picking a team for a top match i'd have Sexton at 10, Henshaw at 13 and Payne at 15.

[Bart S]

The result unfortunately may inhibit experimentation to a large extent .

As McCloskey had a sound game and was a major influence in the defence in the first half he might well be maintained at 12 with Payne going to 15

Don't see to many changes and while some consider Trimble has so far failed to shine the fact is the ball has seldom got beyond the centres and Sextons kicking has seldom been sharp enough to to permit a chase but has been long to enable a defence to be formed across the half way .

Shining in those circumstances is difficult .

As for the vinaloo 8 he looks good in a team who win a lot of ball but against a team who run the ball his defence is weak because he is a slow turner and extremely one paced Hard to tackle and bring to ground but that is his sole asset .




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Rum - it is not just his attack. we all see the big hits from Trimble but he is also missing too many tackles for my liking, whether falling off them or mistiming them.

Gilroy may have defensive issues to address, bit he has been superior to Trimbke this season.

[fuzzylogic]

Unread postby Bart S » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:38 am

Rum - it is not just his attack. we all see the big hits from Trimble but he is also missing too many tackles for my liking, whether falling off them or mistiming them.

I was embarassed for Trimble when Billy V ran through him for a shortcut. Theres no shame in a winger being run over by a number 8 but when said winger is 6ft and almost 16st and known for his aggression and big tackling there is something very very wrong.

Mike Catt made a better attmpt at stopping Lomu.

[Spiffsson]

Was McCloskey injured? Or was it a tactical substitution? He had a couple of impressive runs in the second half.
Henshaw looked a tad short of pace today.
Overall, Ireland just don't have the power or physicality up front. Donnacha Ryan looks done. Toner weak. VDF a little out of it though he did improve a bit towards the end of the game.
Hard to see where we go from here. There are not that many decent players pushing for places.

Aye and ITV credited him with Henshaw's superb break up the middle.

Spiffer yer off yer heed man, were you on the Umbongo full strength? Henshaw was bloody flying on that break & the one up the wing, the guy who nailed him is like greased lightning.

I think you are right on Ryan which is a shame, he's been wrecked by injury and does look a bit of a shadow of his former combative self. not so sure I agree on Toner & I thought it was a good debut from VDF if a little underpowered in that particular company.

Sadly Vunibastard played like a feckin' Boss, and ugly miserable bludgeon off a boss, but a boss none the less. The other two have little to offer other than bosh & lack of brains, that clown in the 7 shirt could have been red carded on the count up of all his late tackles and professional fouls.

I also find it interesting that not a single Ulsterman has had anything to say about the GLU, he looked as he has all season, struggling for form, though as ever giving his all.

Normally, you and I tend to agree about most things Baggers. But to describe Jack Nowell as greased lightening is well over the top. Actually, I have a lot of respect for Nowell. He makes the most of his abilities, always gives 100% and is a tough, powerful, little nut who is an asset to his team and would run through a brick wall for his mates. Overall, he deserves his spot on the England team. But an out-and-out speedster he is not (though he's good over 20 metres). I really did think Henshaw would have nailed that try and was already celebrating when he was hauled down. Wonder if he's 100%.

With respect to the Rev. - yes he will play his heart out for Ireland but he does look to have lost a bit of pace, which is all important at the international level, despite his usually sound defence.

Ireland are out of this 6N now and I'd like to see some changes made. I'd keep the McCloskey/Henshaw midfield and play Payne at FB. I'd even prefer O'Halloran to Kearney. He's been in grand form for Connacht and has some pace. Same with Healy on the wing. He may not be the best defensive wing, but he's scoring tries for fun and is fast. Just give him a game and see what happens. Or Gilroy. Or even Zebrother FFS.

We lack large mean boggers up front. But we don't seem to have many, so are up against it. Toner/Ryan do not look up to it. Might as well pitch in the promising Dillane and give him a run of games. His Connacht partner Muldowney should be there beside him. The best ball-carrying lock in Ireland, but Joe won't pick him. Also "rest" Heaslip, play Stander at 8 and bring in Ruddock for some grunt at 6 and juggle TOD/VDF at 7. Get rid of Reddan and give Marmion some game time (or the 38 year old Peter Stringer!)

I'm fed up watching the same old faces not being able to do the job.

Will we see significant canges from Fibber? No !!!!

[rumncoke]

You never get wholesale change because at International level there is a limited period of time to create an understanding between players before they take the field and while things may seem OK in training under the pressure of a game it falls apart quickly and 15 individuals don't make a team .

Thus while players like Trimble have played centre at Pro 12 it counts for little because a mid field defence is only as good as two players combined .

Coaches therefore prefer to introduce players in to existing pods and maintain existing roles thus the player being introduced may have to adopt a role similar to the player he is replacing rather than the role he may play for his club .
Also there is the change of pace between club and International
While at club level every club has a number of players who would not be international standard some International teams international teams might have only have one or two .
And too many changes can weaken a collective effort rather than improve it .
At international level it's the team who make the fewest a mistakes wins
Eg Ireland's lack of defence wide for two trys Henshaws loss of control reaching for the line small margins decide matches



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[mid ulster maestro]

I do believe that Joe is being hampered by the do not lose mentality which leads to a defensive game plan and the hope that your kicker can slot the points when on offer and steal a game. As has been the case now for several years it appears more difficult to get dropped from the Ireland team than to get selected. History repeating itself? You bet.

[Cockatrice]

Was McCloskey injured as I couldn't understand the logic in brining him off for Zebo. He had started the 2nd half brighter and was starting to make a bigger impression.

[BaggyTrousers]

You've answered your own question, Spiffer, MexicanJose will make changes that are essential rather than experimental.

He is Saint Joe of Dublin 4 but he will be bursting to win 2 matches rather than equal the record of Deccie Kiddinya in 2013 when similarly inconvenienced by an injury crisis, which if anything was worse than now, Deccie's men had a win & a draw for their efforts. A home defeat to Scotland could see his stock fall to a very low ebb.

The need not to be 5th or 6th will dictate what he will do. The ranking is already in parlous bother. The IRFU will be displeased with any further loss because we are like to suffer three defeats in June. Dangerous time to be a coach with only a couple of shared championships & injury excuses, given a Grand Slam & excuses didn't save Deccie.

Folk may think Jose is untouchable, wait and see if Scotland win in Dublin & it's 3-0 to SA.

I agree with you on most of the players mentioned.