6N 2020

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Cockatrice
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by Cockatrice » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:38 pm

turko wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:16 pm
[quote="Bart S" post_id=692401 time=<a href="tel:1582496096">1582496096</a> user_id=665]
[quote=rumncoke post_id=692393 time=<a href="tel:1582488156">1582488156</a> user_id=2190]
I never judge wings for the try they score Stockdale got hustled off the ball for one try and the defeat is down to him come off it .

The players who have been out of form for 18 months are Sexton and Murray two kicks to touch don't get there and the English back line gets the freedom of the park.

losing to England playing at home with referee who doesn't realise if you see two cheeks of a loose heads props Brennan he's boring.

Or that someone lying on the ground with his arms bound round a guys legs isn't pleading to kissed he wasn't even the bl--dy ruck -- it's a major offence worthy of a yellow card .

The English always play the sneaky aggressive stuff at home and get away with it Jones encourages the brutish game and because refers fail to stop that which is beyond normal the opposition are playing survival.

Rum - it is not just stockdale’s lack of try scoring for ireland. He is not doing it for ulster either. Too many defensive errors as well. He is young and will come back, but a spell out of the limelight could do him a world of good. He has had plenty if chances to play himself into form and failed to really do so.

And whatever way you dress it up that was a really poor try he gave away today.
[/quote]

No worse than Sextons surely?????????
[/quote]

Not for BoD who thought Sexton did all he could ..
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big mervyn
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by big mervyn » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:40 pm

To be fair, on balance, I thought it was worse . Sexton was genuinely unlucky with the bounce but a big, fast, strong lad like Stockdale should have absolutely owned that situation.
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turko
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by turko » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:45 pm

big mervyn wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:40 pm
To be fair, on balance, I thought it was worse . Sexton was genuinely unlucky with the bounce but a big, fast, strong lad like Stockdale should have absolutely owned that situation.
Hmm or a really experienced international including being a B&I lion should have owned the situation.... maybe???

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Jackie Brown
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by Jackie Brown » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:50 pm

They were both sh1t. However when your 9 and 10 are sh1t it's more detrimental to the team than your 11.
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big mervyn
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by big mervyn » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:15 am

I'm certainly not trying to defend Sexton. He was dire and his performances are reminiscent of ROG at the fag end of his international career. I'm sure I wasn't alone in calling the pen miss before he adressed the ball.
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by Dharper » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:17 am

Some thoughts:
Cian Healy looks like a tired prop with a lot of miles on the clock. Although I’m not fully convinced re kilcoyne as a long term starting solution, I think Healy is a shadow of his former self....and on borrowed time - I’d give him the it game off.
Toner isn’t the way forward for this team, really lacks dynamism and today showed it. VdF is underpowered - to accommodate him the balance of the backrow has to change. Doris & Stander would dovetail quite nicely. Everyone in Ireland should be praying for Leavy making a full recovery.
Murray’s first few kicks were nice, but then It started going wrong. Cooney pass doesn’t seem that much quicker but he is clearly adding impetus when he comes on infact the longer he gets the sillier the selection of Murray appears. Cooney offers a running threat Murray no longer does....Very interesting in last 20 Byrne kicked the pens for touch & cooney the conversion. I actually think Aki Henshaw went well in the centres today. Ringrose doesn’t bring the wingers into the game, and defensively he’s not powerful.
Stockdale should have done better with the kick for the try. He’s getting better but it’s a slow improvement.
I think the ire bench added value. There’ll be more exposure for the It game but we need a bp win. With a shot at the championship in France we need to up the power & cut out the errors. Henderson Doris in the pack. Cooney starts. Stockdale needs a stormer v it. Otherwise I’d play earls, his error count is lower in a one off potential championship decider. Trust the bench sooner if required. The French will come at us just like Eng did.

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Shan
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by Shan » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:32 am

It's ridiculous. Stockdale did a Poitrenaud for that try. Fell asleep and allowed a try be scored. Even outside of that he has been poor for 3 games. The big issue is we have no fecking wingers. Dave Kearney is next in line after Earls and that's really it. I mean Conway is the best winger in the country for the last year or more and its not even his best position. Ideally he should be at 15.

Larmour was probably at fault for the "Sexton" try.

You don't need to blame Sexton for that try to show that overall he was woeful today.

The system needs a shake up. Anyone knew that after the RWC......anyone except the IRFU and provincial half wits that is. Many of us called the decision to name Sexton as captain as foolish. Neither he nor Murray should be there. No 10 is going to magically appear in the next year so we'd have been better off firing in Byrne immediately along with Cooney. We would still have beaten woeful Scotland and average Wales.
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by Snipe Watson » Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:41 am

big mervyn wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:40 pm
To be fair, on balance, I thought it was worse . Sexton was genuinely unlucky with the bounce but a big, fast, strong lad like Stockdale should have absolutely owned that situation.
Jacob's was worse.
His positioning was wrong and he allowed himself to be pushed off line too easily. Really careless, slack even to the point of being declared hoggesque.
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by againstthehead » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:47 am

Home team won... you have to be seriously good to win against a decent side like england. Ireland are good enough to beat anyone at home but nowhere near good enough to win away. In fact even NZ and SA would struggle to win at Twickenham on current form. Home wins over the likes of scotland and Wales get everyone worked up how amazing Ireland are and a defeat and the media get the daggers are.
Reality is Ireland are back to average Joe's. Very good side that is hard to beat at home but will struggle on the road to any tier 1 nation.
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by NorthernStar » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:14 am

againstthehead wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:47 am
Home team won... you have to be seriously good to win against a decent side like england. Ireland are good enough to beat anyone at home but nowhere near good enough to win away. In fact even NZ and SA would struggle to win at Twickenham on current form. Home wins over the likes of scotland and Wales get everyone worked up how amazing Ireland are and a defeat and the media get the daggers are.
Reality is Ireland are back to average Joe's. Very good side that is hard to beat at home but will struggle on the road to any tier 1 nation.
Off with you, there is no place for reasoned, level headed analysis on this forum.....

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big mervyn
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by big mervyn » Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:49 am

Farrell gives a good impression of somebody who is as thick as pigsh!t in his media interviews. You could put that down to my middle class bigotry against his Northern working class persona and poor command of English ("they was, we was" ffs! :roll: ) but Sean Edwards seems as sharp as a tack in comparison.

... and the apple doesn't apoear to have fallen very far from the tree in that respect :lol:
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by for dog and ulcer » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:17 am

Shan wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:32 am
It's ridiculous. Stockdale did a Poitrenaud for that try. Fell asleep and allowed a try be scored. Even outside of that he has been poor for 3 games. The big issue is we have no fecking wingers. Dave Kearney is next in line after Earls and that's really it. I mean Conway is the best winger in the country for the last year or more and its not even his best position. Ideally he should be at 15.

Larmour was probably at fault for the "Sexton" try.

You don't need to blame Sexton for that try to show that overall he was woeful today.

The system needs a shake up. Anyone knew that after the RWC......anyone except the IRFU and provincial half wits that is. Many of us called the decision to name Sexton as captain as foolish. Neither he nor Murray should be there. No 10 is going to magically appear in the next year so we'd have been better off firing in Byrne immediately along with Cooney. We would still have beaten woeful Scotland and average Wales.
I concur completely regarding Stockdale, Murray and Sexton. Not sure that Earls brings much more than his lion heart to the proceedings. Sexton is a disaster as Captain. His tetchy personality alone would make him an inappropriate choice. I hold out no hope of improvement until both 9 and 10 are retired. With honour, but retired. Since Sexton is Captain that is unfortunately unlikely unless he is injured or Farrell is sacked.

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Re: 6N 2020

Post by Cormac » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:46 am

Shan wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:32 am
It's ridiculous. Stockdale did a Poitrenaud for that try. Fell asleep and allowed a try be scored. Even outside of that he has been poor for 3 games. The big issue is we have no fecking wingers. Dave Kearney is next in line after Earls and that's really it. I mean Conway is the best winger in the country for the last year or more and its not even his best position. Ideally he should be at 15.

Larmour was probably at fault for the "Sexton" try.

You don't need to blame Sexton for that try to show that overall he was woeful today.

The system needs a shake up. Anyone knew that after the RWC......anyone except the IRFU and provincial half wits that is. Many of us called the decision to name Sexton as captain as foolish. Neither he nor Murray should be there. No 10 is going to magically appear in the next year so we'd have been better off firing in Byrne immediately along with Cooney. We would still have beaten woeful Scotland and average Wales.
On the first try I'm pretty sure Ireland are supposed to be working off a 13-2 defensive system. 13 in the defensive line with 2 covering the back field. One of Murray or Sexton should have been back covering that side of the pitch. Having said that Larmour needs to see the danger and the lack of cover earlier than he does.

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Re: 6N 2020

Post by Evil Kiwi » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:31 pm

When Ford/Farrell looks up and see no fullback they are going to kick in behind everytime. I'm not sure where Larmour was but for me this seems to be a recurring problem. Jacob was the only one to react. He probably wishes he hadn't. You need the fullback sweeping in behind the defence. You would expect a half back to cover if they realise the situation. It's impossible for the winger to cover the wing and in behind. I think the kick is pretty much perfect. Too far for Jacob to reach in time and a lucky bounce.

For a young winger to lead the stats (metres gained, defenders beaten, offloads from seven touches) for the team away in Twickenham is a great thing. Jacob has to score a hatrick, linebreak with every play and cure cancer at half time. The expectations are hard to manage when the team is in serious decline.

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Shan
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Re: 6N 2020

Post by Shan » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:41 pm

for dog and ulcer wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:17 am

Not sure that Earls brings much more than his lion heart to the proceedings.
It's a dicussion point I think in terms of what he may or may not bring currently. The bigger thing for me is that he is coming towards the end of his career. If we are looking forward he is not in the plan.

However we need to see something coming through the ranks. Even Leinster are weak in Irish winger department.
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