Jackie Brown wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:10 pm
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Imagine a parliament that actually represented the people. Maybe that would stop the disillusionment.
I always vote; EU, Council, Westminster and Assembly.
I'm in my mid30s, lived in two constituencies and my Westminster vote has never counted.
I guess I know it isn't completely relevant but I'm reminded in the US the presidential candidate who gets the most votes doesn't always win, and recent times has lost quite often. Democracy certainly isn't pure.
Without researching it how does PR work with having a local MP representing the constituency, are the elected representatives basically decided by the party?
Jackie Brown wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:52 pm
Conservatives didn't even get 43%, yet have an 80seat majority. Feels a bit like Gerrymandering
Conservatives majority has nothing to do with gerrymandering, it is as a result of a multi party democracy. If there are more than 2 parties whoever wins under first past the post is going to be doing very well to get 50% of the vote.
It may not be gerrymandering but it isn't true democracy. How many votes did the Brexit party get for no representation?
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Big Neville Southall
So .... 38k votes to elect a Tory, 50k for a Labour MP, 330k for a LibDem and 857k for a Green. If this system had just been invented, it would never be accepted.
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
Big Neville Southall
Jackie Brown wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:52 pm
Conservatives didn't even get 43%, yet have an 80seat majority. Feels a bit like Gerrymandering
Conservatives majority has nothing to do with gerrymandering, it is as a result of a multi party democracy. If there are more than 2 parties whoever wins under first past the post is going to be doing very well to get 50% of the vote.
It may not be gerrymandering but it isn't true democracy. How many votes did the Brexit party get for no representation?
Very easy in Northern Ireland to be reminded what true democracy might look like, if the DUP get 51% of the vote do they automatically do whatever they want at Stormont without any repercussions? Not really sure there is such a thing as one version of pure democracy.
Jackie Brown wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:00 pm
Nah we have the 'petition of concern', so they can do whatever they want with far less of the electorate.
Think for Stormont the key thing now is to embolden the parties of the centre which means that anything doesn't need 50% approval of both the Catholic and Protestant sides, sort that simple issue and DUP and Sinn Fein lose their authority.
Jackie Brown wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:00 pm
Nah we have the 'petition of concern', so they can do whatever they want with far less of the electorate.
Think for Stormont the key thing now is to embolden the parties of the centre which means that anything doesn't need 50% approval of both the Catholic and Protestant sides, sort that simple issue and DUP and Sinn Fein lose their authority.
When the position of concern was devised the centre was virtually non existant. Alliance are now the 3rd biggest party and the Greens also have a presence. It is increasingly unlikely that the pan-nationalists or pan-unionists will be able to secure an overall majority in the current PR system. The position of concern should be scrapped.
Last edited by big mervyn on Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
Big Neville Southall
Jackie Brown wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:20 am
I think that's all that needs to be sorted. Scrap that and everything else can be done through legislation in Stormont itself.
No PoC and an Irish Language Act can be properly debated, voted on and legislated for, with EVERYONE having a say.
What has Paul O'Connell got to do with it lol! Seriously though having a simple majority on things while it would have been bad in the past suits well now, it puts pressure on Sinn Fein and DUP to move to the centre because Alliance/SDLP/UUP would then have the mandate to decide who to deal with.
Dennis Skinner. Supported Brexit. Hardly missed a parliamentary session in 50 years. Donated a full year's parliamentary salary to the striking miners. F*cked over by his own.
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
Big Neville Southall
big mervyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:15 am
Dennis Skinner. Supported Brexit. Hardly missed a parliamentary session in 50 years. Donated a full year's parliamentary salary to the striking miners. F*cked over by his own.
Sure but a lot of them will pay a price for this so one could argue they have f-cked over themselves. I mean even someone who blames the EU for their lot in life can't seriously believe the tories are the answer to their troubles. They can think about that when they are in line at the food bank.
It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways.
Let's hope you can get Stormont up and running and get back to running most of your own affairs. it has been simply ridiculous that during the Brexit debacle of the last three years you had no government. There may be ways of mitigating the worst effects of Brexit for NI that having a government can make a difference. Everyone in your two big parties is to blame, by the way.
Dublin4 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:59 am
Let's hope you can get Stormont up and running and get back to running most of your own affairs. it has been simply ridiculous that during the Brexit debacle of the last three years you had no government. There may be ways of mitigating the worst effects of Brexit for NI that having a government can make a difference. Everyone in your two big parties is to blame, by the way.
It's the c*nts that vote for them that are to blame
Volunteer at an animal sanctuary; it will fill you with joy , despair, but most of all love, unconditional love of the animals.
Big Neville Southall
Dublin4 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:59 am
Everyone in your two big parties is to blame, by the way.
Don't agree, it was the British government's weakness. They should simply have said no government no salaries paid to any public employees, isn't that how a real government would work? You can bet your balls in that scenario we wouldn't have had years of no functioning government while MLAs get paid, what other country in the world has public representatives getting paid for not doing their job?
