Charlie Hebdo

[Shan]

Yes but we don't exist in an equal world thus natural equality does not exist . If equality existed abuse would cease to exist . Baggy wouldn't call people mentalists etc as an example because all would exist eternal harmony if equality existed . Every rugby match would be a draw etc


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I'll try to help you as I would do to a person drowning while swimming out of their depth.......Do you have even the very basic understanding of what would be meant by legal equality for all citizens of a state?

[pythagoras]

.

[BaggyTrousers]

Yes but we don't exist in an equal world thus natural equality does not exist . If equality existed abuse would cease to exist . Baggy wouldn't call people mentalists etc as an example because all would exist eternal harmony if equality existed . Every rugby match would be a draw etc

A remarkably stupid post old man. Natural equality and equality in the eyes of the law are two separate issues ............ but of course, you know that.

[Russ]

Take out all the emotional conviction and the word games and the whole thing boils down to one simple question....

Do you agree with equality for all citizens, yes or no? The subject matter itself is, or should be, irrelevant.

Really really simple isn't it?

No, tax the rich more!

And receive less tax revenue

Lower the highest rate of tax and receive more. Weird

[BaggyTrousers]

CHURCHILL ON ISLAM Unbelievable, but the speech below was written in 1899.

HERE IS THE SPEECH:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy,

which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture,

sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the

Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement,

the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to

some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction

of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Muslims may

show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant

and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step;

and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had

vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."



Sir Winston Churchill; (Source: The River War, first edition, Vol II, pages 248-250 London)

Santa I'm sure you don't need a history lesson from me but "winning" WWII apart, Churchill' s political life was in the main characterized my poor judgement, intemperance and failure. Mind you there is much in that that rings fairly true.

I remember watching much of his funeral as a 10 year old on a cold wet day so none of the mates were kicking football. I remember my father not being greatly sorry to see the back of Churchill telling me that Churchill had "set" the army on the miners during the 1926 General strike, when Britain came as close to armed revolution as it is ever likely to come.

Something the bitch Thatcher was to employ with thuggish and provocative police decades later.

[big mervyn]

... interesting that 8 years later in 1907 family letters show concern that Winnie was contemplating conversion to Islam.

Oh aye, was a great lad,and well ahead of his time. Concentration camps half a century before the Nazis; advocating gassing the Kurds before Saddam was even a glint in his da's eye.

[BR]

Yes but we don't exist in an equal world thus natural equality does not exist . If equality existed abuse would cease to exist . Baggy wouldn't call people mentalists etc as an example because all would exist eternal harmony if equality existed . Every rugby match would be a draw etc


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I'll try to help you as I would do to a person drowning while swimming out of their depth.......Do you have even the very basic understanding of what would be meant by legal equality for all citizens of a state?

And therein lies the problem. The marriage act does not provide legal equality for all citizens. It provides a (further) mechanism to allow a small % of the population to by-pass some of the ill-effects of the existing inequal legislation. Whereas I would call for them to change the underlying inequal legislation rather than create more loop-holes.

BTW: We're still subjects not citizens (despite what them there liberals in Westminister try to tell you)

[Gary]

To keep it simple Rummy, if all were equal, why would all rugby games be drawn? Maybe we should take account of the strange shape of the ball and the rather erratic way it bounces. Or the sudden gust of wind which seems to keep blowing Paddy's kicks away from the posts. Or referees named Clancy or Fitzgibbon.

On Churchill - one of the most ruthless men ever to walk this earth. Just ask the folk of Coventry. And he was willing to shaft the Unionist people here at the slightest sign of any political or military advantage.

Of course, this ruthlessness proved very important at one time.

Still don't see him as the greatest ever Briton.

[Shan]

And therein lies the problem. The marriage act does not provide legal equality for all citizens. It provides a (further) mechanism to allow a small % of the population to by-pass some of the ill-effects of the existing inequal legislation. Whereas I would call for them to change the underlying inequal legislation rather than create more loop-holes.

BTW: We're still subjects not citizens (despite what them there liberals in Westminister try to tell you)

I wouldn't disagree. I don't know the wordings but one thing I do know is that most laws and other legal documents contain insane nonsense and all of that is entirely designed for the purpose of employment justification and public teet sucking for legal folk. It would be great to just simplify it all but there is no chance of that.

Better still my ideal scenario would be for the state to remove its nose from the private lives of citizens. But as that won't happen any time soon the best thing possible is a desire for equality under that interference, or laws to control the lives of citizens if you prefer.

Interesting point about being subjects. Obviously I am not a subject in either real or perceived terms but it does raise the question about genuine desire for universal equality within law of folk living in states which are by definition unequal societies. Naturally my position is total opposition to privilege of birth. I think it is quite depraved and a legacy of our short journey thus far as a species. Evolution of course is slow and that is OK with me. Folk will grow in time to a point where equality of origin will be considered a natural state. I'd love it all this minute but I'm not quite dumb enough to think we can just magic ourselves forward.

[Shan]

Still don't see him as the greatest ever Briton.

It is such a rotten concept that I think the holder of that title should be a violent, evil and murderous person with perhaps a penchant for human degradation and torture.


Churchill certainly would be a contender under that criteria but he would be far from alone.

[BaggyTrousers]

That wart faced roundhead Oliver Cromwell would have a shout on the basis of that criteria. Very popular around Drogheda I believe.

[Gary]

Oliver Cromwell played a major role in the establishment of parliamentary democracy in Britain and must surely be seen as a better candidate for the best Briton award than Churchill (who was really American anyway which explains a lot).

Cromwell's Irish campaigns were, by the standards of the time, not especially bloody or evil. His reputation has unfortunately suffered from Ireland's in-built bitterness, whether deserved or not, towards England. Alas memories are long in both bits of our land.

I cannot forgive his Puritanism however

[BaggyTrousers]

Oliver Cromwell played a major role in the establishment of parliamentary democracy in Britain and must surely be seen as a better candidate for the best Briton award than Churchill (who was really American anyway which explains a lot).

Cromwell's Irish campaigns were, by the standards of the time, not especially bloody or evil. His reputation has unfortunately suffered from Ireland's in-built bitterness, whether deserved or not, towards England. Alas memories are long in both bits of our land.

I cannot forgive his Puritanism however

Tell that to the blessed Oliver Plunket, Gary, his head is in a jar in Drogheda & his ballix in Wexford or somewhere similar.

[Gary]

And his actions in Wexford and Drogheda were unnecessary - the Irish would have hated him anyway for being English. Some things never change.

And he taught the Scots a lesson as well.

And he encouraged foreign immigration to England by actually bringing many Jews in.

Don't think he dealt with the Welsh though. Perhaps he wasn't that great after all.

[BR]

Baggy - IIRC Oli P completed his canonization some years ago.