Biblical matters

[bazzaj]

Neil. the patronising element you picked up on with my comment on Gervais is because I harboured similar grudges and spoke the same language as Gervais due to my religious upbringing.
Similar to yours it seems.

Not being allowed to question anything religious is my hatred of that.
Purely hypocrisy at its worst especially as Paul.in the Bible urges us to "Test everything".

Well actually now it's nice that I have had the opportunity in my adult life to do just that..
I have concluded since that there is a creator but I tread carefully when I realise that humans being humans have perverted certain religious aspects for the own ends throughout time as has been deliberated on here.
I have to now determine what's what.

You have come to your conclusion Neil and you are happy with your own self.
Good luck to you and I mean that in a very non patronisimg way..

Fair play, Bazz.

Fundamentally, I believe that anyone and everyone should believe, or have the right to believe, whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. I will be blunt: I generally oppose organised religion and, certainly, any vestiges of influence it has on the society in which I live. At the same time, I do not oppose religious people, or their beliefs (unless someone seeks to use those beliefs to harm the society in which they (and I) live). In general, I have an issue with anyone who is unable to oppose the general, without resorting to the specific. Just as people who can't attack PETA without attacking vegetarians / vegans; those who can't criticise Israel without attacking Jews; or those who couldn't criticise the DUP after the general election without resorting to some of the old anti-Irish racism, I have a problem with anyone who is unable to criticise religion (or specific religions), or the role they play in society, without adding condescending comments about the people who believe in those religions.

The big problem is - and this is something Baggy alludes to above - that many religious people treat non-believers in exactly the same condescending way. Often, the leaders of these religions are the very worst for doing this. The Anglican Church is a wonderful case in point. An increasingly irrelevant institution holding on for grim death to its last vestiges of power, privilege and advantage. Crying discrimination and persecution every time someone says "Happy Holidays", which is not only fecking ridiculous but does a massive disservice to the millions of people around the world who are actually persecuted for their religious beliefs, or lack thereof. Although this is probably quite far from the initial point.

Like you, I am happy to wish anyone good luck in doing what brings happiness into their lives. I am happy for anyone to believe what they want. If the mood takes me, though, I'll still oppose the structures of that belief, although never the beliefs themselves, or the people who hold them privately.

Oh, and I find Gervais an over-simplistic condescending gobshite but that's an aside...

I wouldn't know Neil, I find him occasionally funny but wouldn't go out of my way to be entertained by him, however, I suspect that he is oversimplistic only by deference to the expectations of his audience. He's a comic, not a deep thinker of the modern age - by trade anyway.

I like Gervais. He thinks the right way and he likes animals.

He has created an on screen persona, which I can understand is not to everybody's taste, but I'm not sure that reflects who he really is.

As my general lack of humour in all posting on this forum will attest, I am seldom someone who would turn to comics and entertainers for information on serious issues. This might be part of the reason why I find it so intolerable when they begin talking about serious issues. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy for anyone to hold an opinion on something and to vocalise it as they see fit; occasionally, I may even find it funny when they do so.

Gervais, though, is one of those people who crosses the line from offering opinion to attempting to educate and I find that incredibly grating. I'll throw him onto the same pile as Geldof, Bono and that stain from Coldplay whose name escapes me. If you are trying to "educate" people and influence their behaviour, you've got to get it spot on. Gervais, for me, most certainly doesn't. Let me put it this way: I don't eat meat and I get pretty fecked off with Gervais when he starts talking about animals.

Thought Gervais was the king of cringe and non pc comedy till I watched Larry David's, Curb your enthusiasm.
Then I realised he's a complete imposter but a good one I'll give him that.

[BaggyTrousers]

As a computer person or just a person does dna coding impress or dare I say it, amaze you?

Neither Jizzer, as a lover of knowledge & of science and the developments it brings, it's not a magic trick to be impressive or amazing, it is something that has been waiting to be discovered just as penicillin once was, or the hydrogen bomb or god knows how many other discoveries or inventions. Where these developments take us is anyone guess, I'll not be here to find out but rest assured that as long as we remain curious to know even more about ourselves and what's around us, things as impressive as DNA will keep cropping up.

I find over half a million people flying around in metal tubes at any given time of day equally remarkable, just different, I am impressed that we know that all naturally occurring elements can be identified in the "heavenly bodies" around us, with no wee extras to think about pretty spectacular, I found the ability to land a craft on an asteroid remarkable albeit the hoped-for research went arseshaped. I'm endlessly fascinated by things like radio-carbon dating............... indeed to many things to bore you with.

Which is more important, DNA or penicillin & the subsequent range of antibiotics which have saved millions of lives? Instantly I'd say antibiotics but then we've no idea where DNA takes us other than there are fewer murderers on the street right now as a small example.

That apart I probably know almost as little as you do about DNA though I can think of something recent that may have piqued your fascination.

[mikerob]

On the point about DNA, I think current thinking is this was based upon RNA and simpler versions of RNA could have been created in the chemical soup that existed in early earth.

Zap electrical discharges (aka lightning) into an atmosphere with gases like CO2 and methane and amino acids are produced and these are building blocks of biology. There are plenty of examples of self-replicating molecules in chemistry.

However no one knows exactly what conditions were like on early earth and given the processes involved took millions of years, they are unlikely to be reproduced in an experiment....

Of course, all this complexity and uncertainty can be ignored if you believe that the earth was created fully populated 30,000 years ago.

[big mervyn]

Thought Gervais was the king of cringe and non pc comedy till I watched Larry David's, Curb your enthusiasm.
Then I realised he's a complete imposter but a good one I'll give him that.

Correct.New series airing on HBO on Oct 1

[Dave]

Whoever this creater is, why are they so brad pitt at making knees?

[bazzaj]

As a computer person or just a person does dna coding impress or dare I say it, amaze you?

Neither Jizzer, as a lover of knowledge & of science and the developments it brings, it's not a magic trick to be impressive or amazing, it is something that has been waiting to be discovered just as penicillin once was, or the hydrogen bomb or god knows how many other discoveries or inventions. Where these developments take us is anyone guess, I'll not be here to find out but rest assured that as long as we remain curious to know even more about ourselves and what's around us, things as impressive as DNA will keep cropping up.

I find over half a million people flying around in metal tubes at any given time of day equally remarkable, just different, I am impressed that we know that all naturally occurring elements can be identified in the "heavenly bodies" around us, with no wee extras to think about pretty spectacular, I found the ability to land a craft on an asteroid remarkable albeit the hoped-for research went arseshaped. I'm endlessly fascinated by things like radio-carbon dating............... indeed to many things to bore you with.

Which is more important, DNA or penicillin & the subsequent range of antibiotics which have saved millions of lives? Instantly I'd say antibiotics but then we've no idea where DNA takes us other than there are fewer murderers on the street right now as a small example.

That apart I probably know almost as little as you do about DNA though I can think of something recent that may have piqued your fascination.

This is a top post Bagster.
The difference between us is I think it all leads us directly to a creator.

[bazzaj]

Thought Gervais was the king of cringe and non pc comedy till I watched Larry David's, Curb your enthusiasm.
Then I realised he's a complete imposter but a good one I'll give him that.

Correct.New series airing on HBO on Oct 1

Now that is amazing!

[bazzaj]

Whoever this creater is, why are they so brad pitt at making knees?

And hips.

[BaggyTrousers]

Whoever this creater is, why are they so brad pitt at making knees?

And hips.

Guys, you must always remember these things are God's will, however in the small print, paragraph 34, subsection (j) you will read that all human being's have "free will", so if you break your God-given gifts through abusing them it's really an obvious case of toughtittie.

[Dave]

Whoever this creater is, why are they so brad pitt at making knees?

And hips.

Guys, you must always remember these things are God's will, however in the small print, paragraph 34, subsection (j) you will read that all human being's have "free will", so if you break your God-given gifts through abusing them it's really an obvious case of toughtittie.

Rugby=sin

[big mervyn]

Whoever this creater is, why are they so brad pitt at making knees?

And hips.

Guys, you must always remember these things are God's will, however in the small print, paragraph 34, subsection (j) you will read that all human being's have "free will", so if you break your God-given gifts through abusing them it's really an obvious case of toughtittie.

Rugby=sin

Self abuse.

[BaggyTrousers]

As a computer person or just a person does dna coding impress or dare I say it, amaze you?

Neither Jizzer, as a lover of knowledge & of science and the developments it brings, it's not a magic trick to be impressive or amazing, it is something that has been waiting to be discovered just as penicillin once was, or the hydrogen bomb or god knows how many other discoveries or inventions. Where these developments take us is anyone guess, I'll not be here to find out but rest assured that as long as we remain curious to know even more about ourselves and what's around us, things as impressive as DNA will keep cropping up.

I find over half a million people flying around in metal tubes at any given time of day equally remarkable, just different, I am impressed that we know that all naturally occurring elements can be identified in the "heavenly bodies" around us, with no wee extras to think about pretty spectacular, I found the ability to land a craft on an asteroid remarkable albeit the hoped-for research went arseshaped. I'm endlessly fascinated by things like radio-carbon dating............... indeed to many things to bore you with.

Which is more important, DNA or penicillin & the subsequent range of antibiotics which have saved millions of lives? Instantly I'd say antibiotics but then we've no idea where DNA takes us other than there are fewer murderers on the street right now as a small example.

That apart I probably know almost as little as you do about DNA though I can think of something recent that may have piqued your fascination.

This is a top post Bagster.
The difference between us is I think it all leads us directly to a creator.

I understand that Jizzer, whereas I think it leads us to Mike's ancient chemical soup and by the way, did you know that there are an average of 1800 thunderstorms in the atmosphere of Earth at any given moment & 100 lightning strikes hitting the surface of the Earth per second, all day, every day.

More than enough to trigger all manner of events in that soup and yet we are a relatively tiny spot in the universe, even some of our near neighbouring planets are lighting up like a light bulb in their atmospheres, by comparison, then think of what goes on in stars, not really much wonder that eventually some bright spark decided we could perhaps harness the power of nuclear fusion, with somewhat mixed results admittedly - ask the Mayor of Hiroshima.

The brain of every living thing communicates through electrical impulses, but until Mick Farraday and others came along afterwards to understand and develop theories - whoddaguest?

Great things Theories Jizzer, especially in scientific endeavour, they potentially explain things that may appear inexplicable, they are not always spot on, they usually evolve on further study & occasionally are found to be bullshit.

The Big Bang Theory (no not the TV show) is a corker that many find unable to grasp, certainly my tiny mind struggles with it, yet we do know that the universe is expanding, hence in all probability, it was much much smaller eons ago, we also know that it is essentially endless for if not, what lies outside it?

The thing I find really hard to grasp is that if people assert that there had to be something there, and in respect of "time" has something always been there too, that's not how time works, how could it just start, what happened before that, and I struggle to comprehend how it can be otherwise, how then can many of the same people insist that GOD has always existed, one follows the same logic, one must understand how ludicrous one's position is if not also applied to God.

One thing's for sure Jizzer, feckwits like us aren't going to provide any answers.

[BaggyTrousers]

Whoever this creater is, why are they so brad pitt at making knees?

And hips.

Guys, you must always remember these things are God's will, however in the small print, paragraph 34, subsection (j) you will read that all human being's have "free will", so if you break your God-given gifts through abusing them it's really an obvious case of toughtittie.

Rugby=sin

Self abuse.

So, Merv, rugby is just like throwing one off over the knuckle, I'd say that makes sense to all Ulster supporters ............and probably the Dragons.

[bazzaj]

As a computer person or just a person does dna coding impress or dare I say it, amaze you?

Neither Jizzer, as a lover of knowledge & of science and the developments it brings, it's not a magic trick to be impressive or amazing, it is something that has been waiting to be discovered just as penicillin once was, or the hydrogen bomb or god knows how many other discoveries or inventions. Where these developments take us is anyone guess, I'll not be here to find out but rest assured that as long as we remain curious to know even more about ourselves and what's around us, things as impressive as DNA will keep cropping up.

I find over half a million people flying around in metal tubes at any given time of day equally remarkable, just different, I am impressed that we know that all naturally occurring elements can be identified in the "heavenly bodies" around us, with no wee extras to think about pretty spectacular, I found the ability to land a craft on an asteroid remarkable albeit the hoped-for research went arseshaped. I'm endlessly fascinated by things like radio-carbon dating............... indeed to many things to bore you with.

Which is more important, DNA or penicillin & the subsequent range of antibiotics which have saved millions of lives? Instantly I'd say antibiotics but then we've no idea where DNA takes us other than there are fewer murderers on the street right now as a small example.

That apart I probably know almost as little as you do about DNA though I can think of something recent that may have piqued your fascination.

This is a top post Bagster.
The difference between us is I think it all leads us directly to a creator.

I understand that Jizzer, whereas I think it leads us to Mike's ancient chemical soup and by the way, did you know that there are an average of 1800 thunderstorms in the atmosphere of Earth at any given moment & 100 lightning strikes hitting the surface of the Earth per second, all day, every day.

More than enough to trigger all manner of events in that soup and yet we are a relatively tiny spot in the universe, even some of our near neighbouring planets are lighting up like a light bulb in their atmospheres, by comparison, then think of what goes on in stars, not really much wonder that eventually some bright spark decided we could perhaps harness the power of nuclear fusion, with somewhat mixed results admittedly - ask the Mayor of Hiroshima.

The brain of every living thing communicates through electrical impulses, but until Mick Farraday and others came along afterwards to understand and develop theories - whoddaguest?

Great things Theories Jizzer, especially in scientific endeavour, they potentially explain things that may appear inexplicable, they are not always spot on, they usually evolve on further study & occasionally are found to be bullshit.

The Big Bang Theory (no not the TV show) is a corker that many find unable to grasp, certainly my tiny mind struggles with it, yet we do know that the universe is expanding, hence in all probability, it was much much smaller eons ago, we also know that it is essentially endless for if not, what lies outside it?

The thing I find really hard to grasp is that if people assert that there had to be something there, and in respect of "time" has something always been there too, that's not how time works, how could it just start, what happened before that, and I struggle to comprehend how it can be otherwise, how then can many of the same people insist that GOD has always existed, one follows the same logic, one must understand how ludicrous one's position is if not also applied to God.

One thing's for sure Jizzer, feckwits like us aren't going to provide any answers.

Again great stuff Bagster you've had a good sleep I can tell.
No but we can't but we look to others who can to help form conclusions as I have done.
I'm never going to understand dna for example but I want to know people's opinion on it who do know more about it..
The problem exists I think when you keep looking in the same place for answers.

Regarding dna with all the things you list in your posts about anti biotics, space travel etc it took the cleverest people centuries to evolve and understand these things.
Dna predates all this by miillions of years yet it is even more complicated.
To the extent that noone still fully understands it.

Life since the big bang has you could argue has evolved to the point we are at now through circumstance by chance.
Its the longest of long shots I gather but dna to me seems very very specific in terms of sequencing.
Too much so to be considered simply chance.

Therefore as I've stated previously to insinute that's it's all just by luck in my opinion would be more ridiculous than to realise there is a superior intelligence behind it all.
Its the most logical conclusion as illogical as it seems.

[BR]

As a computer person or just a person does dna coding impress or dare I say it, amaze you?

As a person, I find DNA (the chemistry and even the knowledge that we are obtaining about it) to be very impressive. But as the first clause of that sentence indicates, I am not an objective observer. On a cosmic scale, who knows.

You are definitely a take two glasses to bed with you kind of guy Br.
Love the dna chat but sense I am about to drown in it

Is that a good thing?