Biblical matters

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bazzaj

Re: Biblical matters

Post by bazzaj » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:15 pm

Me drowning or the glasses?

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Dave
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Re: Biblical matters

Post by Dave » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:15 pm

bazzaj wrote: Again great stuff Bagster you've had a good sleep I can tell.
No but we can't but we look to others who can to help form conclusions as I have done.
I'm never going to understand dna for example but I want to know people's opinion on it who do know more about it..
The problem exists I think when you keep looking in the same place for answers.

Regarding dna with all the things you list in your posts about anti biotics, space travel etc it took the cleverest men centuries to evolve and understand these things.
Dna predates all these things by billions of years yet it is even more complicated.
To the extent that noone still fully understands it.

Life since the big bang has you could argue has evolved to the point we are at now through circumstance by chance.
Its the longest of long shots I gather but dna to me seems very very specific in terms of sequencing.
Too much so to be considered simply chance.

Therefore as I've stated previously to insinute that's it's all just by luck in my opinion would be more ridiculous than to realise there is a superior intelligence behind it all.
Its the most logical conclusion as illogical as it seems.
If DNA appears too complicated to explain without a creator, how would you explain an unimaginably complex creator?
Last edited by Dave on Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bazzaj

Re: Biblical matters

Post by bazzaj » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:17 pm

Unimaginably complex.

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Dave
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Re: Biblical matters

Post by Dave » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:19 pm

bazzaj wrote:Unimaginably complex.
Oops yeah that!
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?

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big mervyn
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Re: Biblical matters

Post by big mervyn » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:28 pm

BR wrote:
bazzaj wrote:
BR wrote:
bazzaj wrote:As a computer person or just a person does dna coding impress or dare I say it, amaze you?
As a person, I find DNA (the chemistry and even the knowledge that we are obtaining about it) to be very impressive. But as the first clause of that sentence indicates, I am not an objective observer. On a cosmic scale, who knows.
You are definitely a take two glasses to bed with you kind of guy Br.
Love the dna chat but sense I am about to drown in it
Is that a good thing?
I saw a video once where a girl nearly drowned in DNA.
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Re: Biblical matters

Post by Dave » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:39 pm

Link?
I have my own tv channel, what have you got?

bazzaj

Re: Biblical matters

Post by bazzaj » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:39 pm

I guess that's the first point Dave acknowledge there is one and work backwards from that point.

I mentioned Hugh Ross who did just that through scientific knowledge, then looked to a religion that best fitted his findings that there was a creator and how they went about their business..
The book of Genesis basically mirrored his scientific knowledge whilst the other religions came up massively short, offering nothing.

It would appear then the Bible would have most of the answers.
Ross is incidentally a Creationists worst nightmare as he does not believe some of the literal interpretation of the Bible.
In fact to the extent that some of them question whether they worship the same God.
Last edited by bazzaj on Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bazzaj

Re: Biblical matters

Post by bazzaj » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:41 pm

Should have quoted you above Dave!
Typical I get serious and two seconds later we've gone on to porn.

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Neil F
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Re: Biblical matters

Post by Neil F » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:07 pm

Hugh Ross holds a PhD in astronomy. When it comes to anything other than explaining the alignment and behaviour of celestial bodies, he should be seen as nothing other than an enthusiastic amateur. Kind of like when Dawkins starts talking theology...

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Re: Biblical matters

Post by BaggyTrousers » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:09 pm

bazzaj wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote:
bazzaj wrote:
BaggyTrousers wrote:
bazzaj wrote:As a computer person or just a person does dna coding impress or dare I say it, amaze you?
Neither Jizzer, as a lover of knowledge & of science and the developments it brings, it's not a magic trick to be impressive or amazing, it is something that has been waiting to be discovered just as penicillin once was, or the hydrogen bomb or god knows how many other discoveries or inventions. Where these developments take us is anyone guess, I'll not be here to find out but rest assured that as long as we remain curious to know even more about ourselves and what's around us, things as impressive as DNA will keep cropping up.

I find over half a million people flying around in metal tubes at any given time of day equally remarkable, just different, I am impressed that we know that all naturally occurring elements can be identified in the "heavenly bodies" around us, with no wee extras to think about pretty spectacular, I found the ability to land a craft on an asteroid remarkable albeit the hoped-for research went arseshaped. I'm endlessly fascinated by things like radio-carbon dating............... indeed to many things to bore you with.

Which is more important, DNA or penicillin & the subsequent range of antibiotics which have saved millions of lives? Instantly I'd say antibiotics but then we've no idea where DNA takes us other than there are fewer murderers on the street right now as a small example.

That apart I probably know almost as little as you do about DNA though I can think of something recent that may have piqued your fascination.
This is a top post Bagster.
The difference between us is I think it all leads us directly to a creator.
I understand that Jizzer, whereas I think it leads us to Mike's ancient chemical soup and by the way, did you know that there are an average of 1800 thunderstorms in the atmosphere of Earth at any given moment & 100 lightning strikes hitting the surface of the Earth per second, all day, every day.

More than enough to trigger all manner of events in that soup and yet we are a relatively tiny spot in the universe, even some of our near neighbouring planets are lighting up like a light bulb in their atmospheres, by comparison, then think of what goes on in stars, not really much wonder that eventually some bright spark decided we could perhaps harness the power of nuclear fusion, with somewhat mixed results admittedly - ask the Mayor of Hiroshima. >EW

The brain of every living thing communicates through electrical impulses, but until Mick Farraday and others came along afterwards to understand and develop theories - whoddaguest? :lol:

Great things Theories Jizzer, especially in scientific endeavour, they potentially explain things that may appear inexplicable, they are not always spot on, they usually evolve on further study & occasionally are found to be bullshit.

The Big Bang Theory (no not the TV show) is a corker that many find unable to grasp, certainly my tiny mind struggles with it, yet we do know that the universe is expanding, hence in all probability, it was much much smaller eons ago, we also know that it is essentially endless for if not, what lies outside it?

The thing I find really hard to grasp is that if people assert that there had to be something there, and in respect of "time" has something always been there too, that's not how time works, how could it just start, what happened before that, and I struggle to comprehend how it can be otherwise, how then can many of the same people insist that GOD has always existed, one follows the same logic, one must understand how ludicrous one's position is if not also applied to God.

One thing's for sure Jizzer, feckwits like us aren't going to provide any answers. :lol:
Again great stuff Bagster you've had a good sleep I can tell.
No but we can't but we look to others who can to help form conclusions as I have done.
I'm never going to understand dna for example but I want to know people's opinion on it who do know more about it..
The problem exists I think when you keep looking in the same place for answers.

Regarding dna with all the things you list in your posts about anti biotics, space travel etc it took the cleverest people centuries to evolve and understand these things.
Dna predates all this by miillions of years yet it is even more complicated.
To the extent that noone still fully understands it.

Life since the big bang has you could argue has evolved to the point we are at now through circumstance by chance.
Its the longest of long shots I gather but dna to me seems very very specific in terms of sequencing.
Too much so to be considered simply chance.


Therefore as I've stated previously to insinute that's it's all just by luck in my opinion would be more ridiculous than to realise there is a superior intelligence behind it all.
Its the most logical conclusion as illogical as it seems.
So you are suggesting that God placed the Earth in an exact rotation around its star, in a very small area where it would have survivable heat from the Sun, with magnetic fields strong enough to deflect the most harmful cosmic wind?

Then with no other place in the universe to amuse himself, he had a sleep of roughly 800 million years before he thought, "hmmmm a bit of "life" could be fun" and the most basic lifeforms evolved. Happy as a pig in shyte he watched these ...... let's be very honest, pretty feckin' boring lifeforms exist. Then in a moment of devine inspiration, after pondering it for a further 2.7 billion years, he goes all X certificate and yeah, he brought forth SEX and more complex lifeforms evolved fuc'king their way to multiuplying and colonising right left and centre.

Moere than 500 million years later, and possibly with a view to facilitating the miracle of the loaves and fishes he thinks, "boyos oh, see that water hi, be queer crack to have things living in there" - shazaaaaaaaaaaaaaam fish are "created". And so the fascinating process goes on. About 100 million years later he thinks all feng shui and bingo, the first plants arrive, I like a bit of greenery as much as the next man, so great call God. Then with long periods between them, arrive the reptiles & then the dinosaurs though for things that seem impressive to us, they don't even merit a line in the bible. (as far as I know)

On and on, a million years develops into ten, hundreds and then, feck it, fish are a bit boring, reptiles not much more fun so bingo, 150 million years ago he thinks, birds, I've done a lot of whacky stuff, lets go for things that fly around and shyte on things, endless hours of fun. So 136 million years after his birds fiasco, apes, now we're really cooking he thinks, these are clever feckers compared to most of my prototypes, they could have legs - quite literally.

Then 2.5 million years ago he makes a serious balls of things, he's seen the dinosaurs come and go, he's bored rigid by fish and birds are just ok, he decides to produce the first homo, Genus Homo is created or evolved depending on yer schtik of choice. After a bit of tinkering and fiddlearsing about with their makeup, DNA if you like >EW , though we share 50% of our DNA in common with the banana (98% with chimps by the way), Ould Beardie hits on something, Homo Sapiensis, and for the last 200 million years we have been wrecking and using all those billions of years of creation.

So that's a potted history of life Jizzer, it throws up innumerable questions, but my favourite is this: If Beardie skillfully placed the Earth and all that in it is, in a viable location not too warm not too cold, and after foutering about with all manner of things that crawl, slither, sit in the same place, swim fly or walk and took his own good time about it for even in eternity 4.6 billion years isn't entirely small change as a time period, what fuc'king kept him if all he had to do was create us in his own image?

That is a belter to me, the guy must have been bored shitless.

In passing "create us in his own image" has always struck me as one of religions most ludicrous boasts, talk about self-congratulation. :duh: Almost as nonsensical as a white Jesus painting. :banghead:

Anyway, a huge amount of that rambling pish is true - I made up the God bits. >EW

Anyway Jizzer, live long enough - almost certainly longer than Methuselah and you will find that somewhere out there around the trillions upon trillions of stars in the universe (FYI approx 700 billion in our small galaxy called the Milky Way) it is statistically certain that there will be planets which are placed in a similar "life zone" neither too close nor far from their star with the potential to sustain life. Like DNA, it could be one hell of a long wait to find it.............. but it's out there.

Now, I feel that much as all this entertains me, if I go round this circle too much longer I may disappear up my own arsehole. Taraaah. :thumleft: >EW
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bazzaj

Re: Biblical matters

Post by bazzaj » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:17 pm

Brilliant Bagster but the basis of some of your argument seems based around time.
There are scientists who will argue that it's simply a made up human concept to make sense of the universe.
Hence if there's no time you wouldn't get bored.

bazzaj

Re: Biblical matters

Post by bazzaj » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:37 pm

Neil F wrote:Hugh Ross holds a PhD in astronomy. When it comes to anything other than explaining the alignment and behaviour of celestial bodies, he should be seen as nothing other than an enthusiastic amateur. Kind of like when Dawkins starts talking theology...
But no one has a PhD in everything.
So long as an opinion holds water and is educated that will do for me.
A scientist will always tend to have a more significant knowledge of most scientific matters than someone with a wiki based amateur knowledge such as myself.

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Re: Biblical matters

Post by Neil F » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:55 pm

bazzaj wrote:
Neil F wrote:Hugh Ross holds a PhD in astronomy. When it comes to anything other than explaining the alignment and behaviour of celestial bodies, he should be seen as nothing other than an enthusiastic amateur. Kind of like when Dawkins starts talking theology...
But no one has a PhD in everything.
So long as an opinion holds water and is educated that will do for me.
A scientist will always tend to have a more significant knowledge of most scientific matters than someone with a wiki based amateur knowledge such as myself.
Agreed - but I'd sooner listen to someone with a PhD in evolutionary biology on evolutionary biology than someone with one in astronomy; and I'd sooner listen to someone with a PhD in cosmology on cosmology than someone with a PhD in astronomy. People like Hugh Ross get away with what they do because they make arguments by authority, despite not really having the authority to do so due to the fact that too many people seem to accept that someone who has a high capacity in one field has high capacities in others. (See also: Richard Dawkins).

bazzaj

Re: Biblical matters

Post by bazzaj » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:15 pm

But if by that logic we can't discuss the existence of God as we need to have a PhD in religious studies to do so, Neil.
If you want to discredit someone's knowledge these people armed with their knowledge should help debunk what the person is saying by formulating a counter argument, be it Ross or Hawkins.or whoever.
Don't just sit back in the stands and tut.

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Re: Biblical matters

Post by mikerob » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:05 pm

A lot of popular scientific writers don't have advanced qualifications on their subject matter but their skill is in translating existing, published research into something more understandable for the lay reader.

However Dr Hugh Ross isn't drawing upon a body of published, peer-reviewed scientific results showing that a god created the universe because those results don't exist.

Bazzaj - rather than citing Dr Hugh Ross, can you point towards any published articles in a reputable scientific journal that puts forward evidence that it was god wot done it?

Science isn't what one individual thinks, its a process where someone who is usually part of a team builds upon the work of large numbers of other individuals and teams, and that process involves critical review of ideas, theories and experimental results.

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