Brexit - now we see what it means.

Fancy a pint? Join the crai­c and non-rugby topics here.

Moderators: The Fonz, Moderators

User avatar
Setanta
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 4812
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:27 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Setanta » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:42 am

A rather one-sided and not entirely accurate view there Lurgan lad - can I guess you voted leave?!
From the rolling glens of Antrim through the hills of Donegal we will stand and shout for Ulster as we win both scrum and maul from the lovely lakes of Fermanagh tae the shores of ould Lough Gall we will scream and shout for Ulster as we beat them one and all!

rumncoke
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 6747
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:39 pm

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by rumncoke » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:52 am

The thing about the EU is nobody negotiates and no agreement is democratically decided by the EU -- the Back Stop is not in the best interests of the Irish Government but forced upon them by the EU to tie GB into the EU .

The EU is against free trade and is basically one of the major reasons for third world poverty which is creating the migration of North Africans towards the EU -- and onward to GB since the easiest Language and most common language is English and GB has the softest approach to social benefits and health care in the EU .

( not saying that those who come to GB are all lazy -- in fact many are extremely hard working but their presence creates additional social costs -- in the provision of housing ,health care and education.)
Migration to the EU will never solve the poverty or remove the problems of those coming to the EU they just change the type of poverty and problems they face.
Within this carapace of skepticism there lives an optimist

User avatar
Setanta
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 4812
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:27 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Setanta » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:21 am

What can I say - absolute rubbish!
From the rolling glens of Antrim through the hills of Donegal we will stand and shout for Ulster as we win both scrum and maul from the lovely lakes of Fermanagh tae the shores of ould Lough Gall we will scream and shout for Ulster as we beat them one and all!

User avatar
Hapax Legomenon
Novice
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:54 pm

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Hapax Legomenon » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:08 pm

The only fact about brexit is that there are no known knowns. It's an unprecedented situation and therefore nobody knows for sure what will happen. Anyone who says they do is full of brad pitt.
The debate is awash with fear mongering, speculation and disinformation dressed up as fact aimed at promoting a desired outcome.
There can be only one

Lurgan Lad
Warrior
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 7:27 pm

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Lurgan Lad » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:44 pm

Setanta wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:42 am
A rather one-sided and not entirely accurate view there Lurgan lad - can I guess you voted leave?!
Yes I did vote leave, where am I inaccurate?

User avatar
Jackie Brown
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11294
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Carrickfergus

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Jackie Brown » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:07 pm

Lurgan Lad wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:30 pm
I think the EU don't live in the real world, when countries like Greece were going through huge pain the EU still expected their budget to rise year on year, just incredible. With regards to the withdrawal agreement it takes some arrogance to propose that a country pays for future costs like pensions etc. Any business and even governments have had to cut out their final salary pensions, why should the EU be different? Why exactly should we pay for their future costs with unknown benefits?
As to why the EU should propose a sensible agreement, I'm not saying it is their responsibility because after all they don't particularly care about those they are supposed to represent. If they did they might just consider that having a sensible agreement would benefit the man on their street.
Lol, right so they expect Greece to get out of recession, that kinda standard practice is it not?

The UK has international commitments regarding pensions and future EU coats that they'd signed up for. Would look great for future trade relations to back out of them.

Tell me what is so insensible about their deal please. You do know it's only the withdrawal agreement, not the actual final relationship?
Gonna Party Like It's 1999

Lurgan Lad
Warrior
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 7:27 pm

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Lurgan Lad » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:58 am

So lets take your first point. When Greece and other countries were struggling hugely with budget deficits the EU proposed that its budget continued to grow. My position would be that they weren't living in the real world to expect the citizens of the EU to fund their increase in expenditure at a time when unemployment grew massively in some countries and people's household incomes were falling.

It appears that your position is it doesn't matter if economies are growing or not they will eventually grow so there is nothing wrong with the EU's budget at that point increasing? From that can I infer that national governments don't need to worry about their debts in a recession, sure just spend more money to get out of it?

User avatar
Jackie Brown
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11294
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Carrickfergus

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Jackie Brown » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:50 pm

Government's spending more money is the usual way they get out of recession. Have you heard of the New Deal? FDR put it in place and it included massive public spending in the United States to get out of the Great Depression.

I think the Tory's have shown that the alternative, austerity, doesn't work.
Last edited by Jackie Brown on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gonna Party Like It's 1999

User avatar
Jackie Brown
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11294
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Carrickfergus

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Jackie Brown » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:51 pm

You haven't told me your big issue with the withdrawal agreement.
Gonna Party Like It's 1999

Lurgan Lad
Warrior
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 7:27 pm

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Lurgan Lad » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:45 pm

Jackie Brown wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:50 pm
Government's spending more money is the usual way they get out of recession. Have you heard of the New Deal? FDR put it in place and it included massive public spending in the United States to get out of the Great Depression.

I think the Tory's have shown that the alternative, austerity, doesn't work.
I guess if you feel the solution to a recession is to spend your way out of it then we will always be on completely different ends of the spectrum. Yes I have heard of the New Deal, I studied economics at university many moons ago. The biggest issue currently facing us is that our productivity isn't increasing fast enough.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/com ... nding.html

Jackie I started with your first point because you loled and wanted to understand why exactly you were loling, now I know.

User avatar
Jackie Brown
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11294
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Carrickfergus

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Jackie Brown » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:49 pm

Since we don't make things anymore it's hard to see how productivity will increase.

So tell me what is horrific about the withdrawal agreement! Also do you think the UK should renege on signed international agreements?
Gonna Party Like It's 1999

Lurgan Lad
Warrior
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 7:27 pm

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Lurgan Lad » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:45 pm

Jackie Brown wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:49 pm
Since we don't make things anymore it's hard to see how productivity will increase.

So tell me what is horrific about the withdrawal agreement! Also do you think the UK should renege on signed international agreements?
I don't understand your first point, how can productivity in any activity not increase, whether in the public or private sector? Really an incredible statement to make.

On the withdrawal agreement where exactly did this £39 billion come from, I heard a figure of £20 billion mentioned, and even then is it assuming that we pay more to an EU that we are leaving than we get out? I'm not sure what international agreements you are talking about, do let me know what all agreements we are talking about?

User avatar
Jackie Brown
Rí­ na Cúige Uladh
Posts: 11294
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Carrickfergus

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by Jackie Brown » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:12 pm

Productivity usually implies to industries where you are creating something. We don't really do that in the UK anymore. I'm a teacher, how can my productivity as a member of the public sector increase?

There's plenty of things we've signed up as part of the EU, they are outside our borders so are international agreements. Here's them broken down a bit,

£16.4bn (€18.5bn) towards the UK’s contribution to the EU budget to December 2020 (after offsetting for the UK rebate);
£18.2bn (€20.2bn) towards outstanding commitments for projects that have been signed off but not yet paid for by 2020 (The Reste à Liquider ("RAL") from successive Multiannual Financial Frameworks) to be paid up to 2028; and
£2.5bn (€2.7bn) for other financial liabilities, being an estimate for pension liabilities of €9.5bn offset by other assets totalling €6.8bn. The payments towards the pension liabilities are estimated to be made until 2064.

You don't just walk away from your financial commitments, whether you're a person or a country.
Gonna Party Like It's 1999

HwoodMike2umate
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 5701
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:31 pm
Location: holywood (or glasgow)
Contact:

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by HwoodMike2umate » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:41 pm

I know who I blame.
For the record Brexit Day, Lest We Forget, is DAY 4667.
http://www.cryptome.org/

Klaatu barada nikto

Nollaig Shona Daoibh

rumncoke
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 6747
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:39 pm

Re: Brexit - now we see what it means.

Post by rumncoke » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:05 pm

Jackie just by improving your teaching you can increase your productivity but being a teacher also explains why you view the EU with coloured specks -- The EU don't negotiate because they are an undemocratic nothing goes to a vote -- a single jackass speaks for the EU.

History shows that EU never comprise or change -- Cameron went round Europe asking for changes to be made -- and came back with promises of we might look at this or we might look at that .. no changes .

The EU ? ( note the question mark since nobody knows who actual formulated this so call deal and who has voted for it ) have watched their proposals being rejected 3 times and still haven't wised up that they are unacceptable and require to changed.

As I have stated before the EU is an anti free trade organisation -- created to benefit the Benelux states of Northern Europe.
Within this carapace of skepticism there lives an optimist

Post Reply