Positives & Negatives from Munster match

[backawaygoonahead]

This does not make them assholes. It just means they are either blinkered by loyalty/obsession, not particularly knowledgable about the game or desperate to believe it is outside forces or bad luck to blame for their team's underperformance. Usually it is either the first or the last reason.

Think you have been swept along by poor Scrum5's drivel and attempted misrepresentation, what I said was:

Given this, the possibility exists that either Boss is a world class player or huge swathes of Ulster rugby fans are assholes.

[Shan]

Think you have been swept along by poor Scrum5's drivel and attempted misrepresentation, what I said was:

Given this, the possibility exists that either Boss is a world class player or huge swathes of Ulster rugby fans are assholes.

Not at all. I am well aware what you wrote and I was saying I do not believe this possibility exists for the reasons I gave.

[backawaygoonahead]

IN case anyone is still interested, here is Mal O'Kelly's view:

It was a great weekend for Leinster and Munster, winning big Magners League matches with sub-strength sides because the Player Welfare scheme meant so many players were unavailable to them. Munster had to go to Ulster, who may have been without a few of their Ireland internationals too but had all their high-profile South Africans playing and are always formidable at Ravenhill. Leinster, on the other hand, met a full-strength Edinburgh, because Scotland don’t play their first November international for two weeks and, in any case, don’t have the same Player Welfare system in place.

Starting with Munster, they’ll be very happy to have gone to Belfast and taken four points, and denied Ulster a losing bonus point with their last minute intercept try. The game was in the melting pot until the last minute or so but Ruan Pienaar, one of Ulster’s big-name Springbok internationals, will be having nightmares.

While Peter Stringer was lively at the base of the scrum and was spot on with his delivery all night, Pienaar was slow and inaccurate for the most part. He also missed two kickable penalties at crucial stages, and was then at the centre of the desperate late bid to go through the back line which led to Ivan Dineen’s interception and simple try.

Munster had a very young team on the field, particularly after Alan Quinlan went off, but there was no lack of seniority or leadership

Overall, with the side they had out, the players Munster were missing and home advantage, it was a great opportunity for Ulster to get a win, but I would have to question some of their tactics. It had rained in Belfast all day so conditions were always going to be tricky. An aerial bombardment of Munster, especially with someone as young and inexperienced as Scott Deasy at full back, would have been a good ploy but they barely asked a question of him all night.

Ulster probably won’t look at it too critically. When two sub-strength sides meet it can often be a bit of a lottery. The game was very close until the very end and could easily have gone their way on another day. They’re traditionally very strong at home but until they can take a few scalps away they’re not going to overhaul Munster and Leinster. Those two teams have showed that they can go away from home, put in big performances and come away with the spoils.

Ulster have to prove they can do that. It’s a mental thing. You need that deep-rooted confidence to put in a big performance away from home, and I suppose that only comes from performing and winning. It’s a chicken and egg scenario but it’s something Ulster have to work on if they’re to become a real force again.

Munster, on the other hand, will be very happy with the win and the performance. There’s a lot for them to be satisfied about. They had a very young team on the field, particularly after Alan Quinlan went off, but there was no lack of seniority or leadership. They did what Ulster struggle to do – go away from home and take a win in a big game, even with an under-strength team. Among their most impressive players was Niall Ronan, who was immense in the back row. I’m also a big fan of Ian Nagle in the second row, and he had another very good game.

[TinPig]

A fair assessment goonahead, ironicly our inexperienced youth also stepped up, maybe we were unlucky some old stagers didnt go off.

[Big-al]

To be fair piggy - the 2 players who played well (marshall and Spence) have been touted as future stars for a while.

[mikerob]

I thought Stringer had a pretty poor game myself - several box kicks went straight out on the full and some knock-ons at the base of rucks... but I think MOK is correct that mentally, Ulster just aren't there, whereas the belief the Munster have that they can go away and get a result, permeates right down the squad.

[Dublin4]

Thanks for putting me in my place, Jack the lad, and I really feel like the little rodent's bag of balls after that.

I was trying to be helpful by pointing out the unacceptable. For the money paid, Pienaar's hospital pass to Ian Humphreys leading to the loss of the bonus point was unacceptable. The performance by some of the other imports was also unacceptable.

Contrast this with the Connacht guys having one year contracts for their journeymen and still getting reasonable results.

We need value for money in Irish rugby and I don't need to be abused for pointing this out.

[Big-al]

Cj Van Der linde???

[darkside lightside]

I haven't been able to bring myself to rewatch the match, so just have my impressions from having watched it live.. It was a strange one, because on reflection I think that in some ways the performance wasn't as bad as some that we've seen - IIRC we made fewer handling errors, some of our positional kicking was good (though we didn't do it enough), our pack was competitive (in what was pretty much a stalemate).

Munster were competitive up front, but even more dire than we were in the backs, and their kicking from hand was the worst I've seen at Ravenhill, with Stringer, Warwick and Deasy all getting in on the act with a series of awful slices, box kicks into touch, missed touches and what have you. I think that they were in our 22 maybe for 1 minute or 2 at the start of the second half, and that was it - but they won the game because (a) they kicked their goals and (b) their defence hardly broke sweat to see off the meagre efforts of our increasingly toothless attacks - we could have played until Christmas without threatening a try.

I said to the brother-in-law at half-time, do you see us scoring a try anytime soon? to which the answer was an unqualified no. And when Warwick slotted the pen to go 9-6 up, I had a horrible feeling that the game was up. Although I could not believe that Pienaar missed that penalty - an absolute shocker, even worse than Deasy's up and under that actually seemed to go backwards, straight into touch

I thought that the young lads looked relatively lively, and showed about the only enterprise that we managed to conjure up out there - I just wonder how long it is until it's coached out of them.. because my strong impression is, like others have said, we look totally uncoached and painfully predictable. D'arcy seems to be getting plaudits, and yes he was ok, but in the incident where McCrea got injured, he took the ball, crabbed at 45 degrees towards the touchline, and then as the defence came up shipped a hospital ball to McCrea who was duly thumped - sorry to pick on him, but this is the kind of stuff we do time after time, it doesn't look like our backs have any awareness of space or lines.

[darkside lightside]

Also a mite depressing to walk away from the terrace to a chorus of boos, and an incredulous-sounding chap shouting 'WHAT AM I WATCHING? WHAT AM I WATCHING?' which was a good question, as Dineen ran in the try.

And can all the armchair hard-men who were haranguing McIlwaine from the terrace throughout the second half reign it in? The guy's a kid, inexplicably being started match after match in the wrong position, doing his damnedest but inevitably having a few tough times.

[Dublin4]

Point taken, Big Al, but we got rid of CJ van der linde as soon as his contract expired. His example should not be repeated by any province.

[notj]

Pienaar is an excellent player who had a poor game. It happens!

Hopefully De Villiers at Munster is a better example, he took a while to find his feet.

Van Der Linde loooked like a guy who didn't care less, whereas I don't get that impression from Pienaar.

[Big-al]

Yep, Pienaar looked gutted,as I said if there's 1 positive to take out of the game was his reaction. He was devastated, now, on the other hand he could easily have waltzed of the pitch without a care in the world.

At the same time he can't let it get to him, keep his chin up and try and get gametime for the Boks the Autumn and regather your beleive and confidence. Will be interesting to see if he gets gametime at 9 or 10.

De villiars said this morning that he will use Pienaar where he wants him (probably flyhalf) and knows he has the talent to produce the goods there. Lets hope the Boks management does the right thing though and release him for the Dragons game, after all Pienaar didn't have to be released this weekend (Frans Steyn is not)

[cables]

Pienaar didn't have to be released this weekend (Frans Steyn is not)

Racing are playing this coming weekend - Ulster are not.

[HwoodMike2umate]

+ we were winning at half time
- we dont want to be winning at half time