Positives & Negatives: The Magners Semi Final

[Yoda]

A lot thought when their team was announced that we could get thumped given the scorelines in the 2 games earlier this season against them when they missing a large number of first choice players

We didn't and that shows progress - its frustrating that we actually gifted them the scores and yet again we are wondering about what might have been if we had cut out the errors - probably not a victory but a lot closer and if its a one score game then you never know - and why on earth where we trying a fancy line out move 5 metres from our own line?

Think Humph was carrying a knock - taken off early and didn't take a drop out all night

Whole team looked tired and given we've not been able to rest some as much we would like thats understandable.

As someone else said, we've seen some progress, now have to kick on for next season when hopefully we'll be playing a semi at Ravers!

[Joony-k]

Good to see so much pessimism after loosing 1 match against a very good team. This year was great in terms of overall improvement and unfortunatly last night was just a step to far for the guys.

Everyone who is say's spence was a negative obviously wasn't watching the same match as me. I thought he was one of our better players who tackled very well and ran hard with ball in hand. Wasn't his best match but tbh it wasn't anyones best match out there. Pienaar looked great as always and Chris henry played very well imo. You can't slag off darcy for his performance, he did well enough and definatly was not full of errors (like someone had posted).

Humph had a poor match, but tbh 1 poor match out of all the matches he played well in shouldnt be a major issue here. Also Cave was pretty quiet through out as well as Danelli but that's understandable seeing as we couldn't hang on to the ball for over 2 phases.

Overall it was an annoying match at time and hard to watch with the number of knock ons but I'm very positive about next season with a few good new guys coming in and with the likes of Spence and Gilroy who are only going to get better. SUFTU!!!

[scrum5]

Home from Dublin and massively disappointed that we lost but then again we didn't deserve to win. Game was lost at lineout time, we didn't have to much possession in Leinster's 22 but when we did we gifted it away by a crooked throw, Best should have been replaced at half time. For those knocking Pedrie, he has played all season without a break and was against the best backrow in Europe...wise up ....he's been a great signing. Thought Pienaar was our best player, distributed well, tackled like a demon and that kick was just monsterous. SOB got MOTM but I thought Ulster handled him well with few if any line breaks the only problem with keeping O'Brien quiet is that Leinster have 14 other class players who need to be kept quiet aswell. Man for man they are miles ahead of us, quicker to the breakdown, quicker in recycling the ball, quicker in closing down space, stronger in defence and attack and far more aggressive in all that they do, no shame in losing to them, hopefully they will go on and win the double this year. Good season for Ulster this year especially when you consider how much of the season was played without our 4/5 best players. Spence did indeed butcher a couple of oportunities but he will gain from the experience and be a better player for it, his tackle on SOB was a cracker and denied a certain try. We really do need another backrow player who can carry ball and I don't think it will be Ali Birch, he was warming up with the players and he's small both in height and physicality. Though it seems either Ur think we our covered or there's not enough money in the coffers. The standard has been set for next season already, we need to at least match this one if not better it, time will tell.... As for the Ulster support at The RDS yesterday it was brilliant, really got behind the team inspite of not having a lot to shout about.....Leinsterfans great

[Cormac]

Not sure how Ulster fans can take positives from that game

Think you need to think again Cormac, here's a few:

1. We were in the semi-final: big step forward from fighting to get into the HEC.
2. We had the upper hand in the scrum.
3. You had your best side, we didn't, but it wasn't game over after 20 minutes.
4. Your bench was better as a result of our injuries, yet you didn't destroy us in the last quarter.
5. Our defence has improved significantly.
6. We have some of the best young backs in the country - Spence, Gilroy
7. We have Paddy Mac.
8. Our high error count relieved pressure on Leinster time and again - you can't imbue talent in players but you can cut out errors.

I'll come back to you if I think of more. The best team won, but not by much and we are getting closer to you game by game. So have a wee think to yourself and try and be objective.

That's all fair enough if we're talking about a league game but it was a cup match where the only real positive is winning the match. Everything else needs to be seen in that light. To my mind at the game last night, Ulster posed little attacking threat and in a knockout game that's very disappointing. Despite the underdog status and injury issues I was disappointed in Ulster's ambition. I expected them to put up a real fight but IMO they seemed content to try and contain rather than attack which simply strikes me as odd given it's knockout rugby. Ulster looked far more threatening a month ago in attack than they did last night. I appreciate that I'm not an Ulster fan and au fait with all the ins and outs of what's going on in Gringo Land and I enjoy these threads but I'm just a bit perplexed that there were positives from an Ulster point of view from that match.

Anyway, it's looked like a much better season for Ulster, hopefully you can kick on for next season.

[againstthehead]

When ur beatin by a vastly suppier side away from home then you can't have too many complaints. In addition, we literally had half our team out there after a long season. I expected us to play a little better but we could play that match 20 times and be lucky to win once under the circumstances.

[OneMore]

When ur beatin by a vastly suppier side away from home then you can't have too many complaints. In addition, we literally had half our team out there after a long season. I expected us to play a little better but we could play that match 20 times and be lucky to win once under the circumstances.

Yeah, I think we lacked just a little something last night and was pleased we were in the game score-wise for as long as we were. I turned to the guy beside me last night about midway through the second half and said 'I think having falloon tonight would have made a big difference.'
'And Ferris and Trimble and Wallace and BJ.' Was his response. He was right. Good showing in the circumstances and the lads have been making all the right noises (via Twitter) in the aftermath - along the lines of 'we'll win those games next year...'.

Proud.

OM

[Loki]

agree with the majority of what's been said so far. back in early this morning so bear with me if the typing's a bit shoddy..

the greatest positive of both last night and the HC QF loss is, to me, being there. the experience of being in the business end of the season in HC and ML will be of huge benefit to the squad and especially the younger players. Every team in any sport has to lose games like these before they go on and improve. Certainly we're not in the class of Leinster yet but we are competing.

adding new signings to the existing squad makes this a seriously exciting time to be following Ulster.

general +ves:
scrum
Pienaar - super player. Muller also; not a great game from him but a great personality and I'm sure he's the man to have in difficult situations.
as prom sandwich said - our error count was grim but I felt we were trying to force it too much. Improvement comes with experience.
our side is getting better and our strength in depth is developing all the time.
we didn't necessarily look like scoring too often but until Fitzgerald's try we were in the game. Perhaps Leinster would have gone up through the gears but our defence performed excellently.
the piper and our support. I was in Leinster territory in the Grandstand and seeing (and hearing!) our fans in the cluster was class.

specific -ves:
lineout was dreadful
Darcy - i don't know if he's knackered or if his confidence is battered, but I groaned inwardly so many times at his performance. A group of Leinster fans near me were openly laughing at him, with a quote being "If you're an academy player at Ulster you'd have to seriously fancy your chances with him in front of you"
Humph - O'Driscoll definitely targeted him in the manner of some HC opponents and he can be weak in the tackle. After such a good year's kicking I thought he was just off. Such an improvement in him though.
Cave - good option for the squad but I'm not convinced he'll ever be of the quality for this calibre of match.

good luck to Leinster in the HC final, it's a pleasure to see the likes of O'Brien and Nacewa live. plus the fans were incredibly welcome and great banter.

for us - can't wait til next season, especially the additions of Payne and Afoa. This year's been brilliant, full of memorable moments and breakthrough performances. Proud of the lads, the coaching team and our support - Stand Up!

[Lurgan Lad]

Think there were more positives than negatives to come out of the match, agree pretty much with what prom said. Re Spence I think Keith Wood said that when BOD came into the Ireland setup he was the hardest worker in the squad. For Spence to achieve anything similar he needs to be the same. AT was hailed as the heir apparent to BOD when he hit the scene but he didn't kick it on, and is more suited to winger because of his distribution. Spence needs to learn to pass and pass well, this is usually the thing that young players take longest to develop, he needs to work on it constantly during the off season. He has had a fantastic first season.
In terms of the backs the inside ball wasn't effective because Leinster were prepared for it, the next step is doing the inside ball out one at 1st centre.
Tactically agree with the poster about the maul, cannot understand why we don't use it more frequently.
The up and unders we should have targeted at Fitzgerald and McFadden, Nacewa is great under the high ball, think we would have had more success against the wingers.
Thought the intensity was great, and the more exposure our players get at the highest level the better. Our players do need to learn to be able to perform the basics under the pressure of big games, if they can't we need to get other players. Agree Best should have been substituted early in the 2nd half. Keith Wood wasn't a great lineout thrower early in his career, but he worked hard on it to get better. I wonder will Best ever be able to throw well under the pressure of the biggest occasions.
IH thought his tackling wasn't bad, wouldn't really complain about it.
Was frustrated at the error count we had, the number of knockons and forward passes wasn't good enough.
Looking ahead to next season if we achieved the same as this season I would be pretty pleased. We had a HEC group with an Italian team in it and only qualified with the last kick at Ravenhill, if we get to the QFs again and qualify for the ML playoffs I would be really pleased.

[FairyNuff]

Remember the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? .... It seems where Ulster and the hooker position is concerned, it's "if it's broke, don't fix it" !!!
I recall that whilst Best wasn't available, Kyriacou was a consistent high performer, with several solid displays. So why repeatedly leave him on the bench until the last few minutes?? Particularly when the incumbent is having a mare.
OK - so he's the captain, but doesn't the team come first?
Seems to me such a waste and mismanagement of talent and resource.

[mid ulster maestro]

Fairy, I'm curious as to why you think Rory had a 'mare. I thought he played well apart from a couple of dodgy dodgy lineouts, which as we all know can also be blamed on the lifters/jumpers.
Mum

[Rooster]

Fairy, I'm curious as to why you think Rory had a 'mare. I thought he played well apart from a couple of dodgy dodgy lineouts, which as we all know can also be blamed on the lifters/jumpers.
Mum

Ok except for lineouts, 1 crooked which is throwers fault and 2 which were so high jumpers would have needed 3rd man up on top to catch.

[Ardglass2]

It can be the jumpers of course but in this case it wasn't.

3 possibly 4 awful throws by Rory.

[Dave]

Not sure how Ulster fans can take positives from that game

Think you need to think again Cormac, here's a few:

1. We were in the semi-final: big step forward from fighting to get into the HEC.
2. We had the upper hand in the scrum.
3. You had your best side, we didn't, but it wasn't game over after 20 minutes.
4. Your bench was better as a result of our injuries, yet you didn't destroy us in the last quarter.
5. Our defence has improved significantly.
6. We have some of the best young backs in the country - Spence, Gilroy
7. We have Paddy Mac.
8. Our high error count relieved pressure on Leinster time and again - you can't imbue talent in players but you can cut out errors.

I'll come back to you if I think of more. The best team won, but not by much and we are getting closer to you game by game. So have a wee think to yourself and try and be objective.

That's all fair enough if we're talking about a league game but it was a cup match where the only real positive is winning the match. Everything else needs to be seen in that light. To my mind at the game last night, Ulster posed little attacking threat and in a knockout game that's very disappointing. Despite the underdog status and injury issues I was disappointed in Ulster's ambition. I expected them to put up a real fight but IMO they seemed content to try and contain rather than attack which simply strikes me as odd given it's knockout rugby. Ulster looked far more threatening a month ago in attack than they did last night. I appreciate that I'm not an Ulster fan and au fait with all the ins and outs of what's going on in Gringo Land and I enjoy these threads but I'm just a bit perplexed that there were positives from an Ulster point of view from that match.

Anyway, it's looked like a much better season for Ulster, hopefully you can kick on for next season.

Cormac, you should have read my post it would have explained how we can redeem positivity from a loss. I'll sum it up for you though. We can take positive aspects from the performances ie. things that were good, as well as bad. Also individual performances can also be analysed for their positivity despite a defeat. As you correctly point out though, no positivity can be extrapolated from the result.

Also, for our perceived lack of ambition. You have already eluded to the fact that we had a number of injuries. I am not making excuses as to why we lost, the better team won IMO, I just wish make a suggestion as to why it may have come across that we lacked ambition. 5/6 injuries to key players for us poses a lot more problems for us then for a squad such as yourselves. Leinster have an excellent squad and deserve to because of the success in recent times and talent being produced at Academy level. Also the dynamics of your squad result in players wishing to spend their entire career at the same place. Lets face it BOD or Horgan had have been throught the Ulster system they would have left years ago a la Tommy Bowe. Our squad lacks the depth to lose that many players and still be competitive in the knock-out stages against the likes Leinster/Munster. Maybe things will change next year with the additions we have made, further emergence of Academy players and hopefully, just hopefully, a fully fit/injury free Stephen Ferris.

[Bopeep]

well tough titty

[rocky]

Bopeep, I don't know who you are or where you're from but, If you've nothing sensible or constructive to say, just take your sheep and flock off into the night.
Rocky.