Idiots at the game

[AyeYerMa]

It turns out the flag was used by some other organisation before its current associations were even developed and that the waver in question has some link to them (some literary group or something IIRC). Not even an offence up here under Public Order Order (which IIRC requires 'intent')

Muuh. Intent or (freely) With regard to circumstances likely to cause undue fear, hatred or offence. Which prior to court at least is probably simply a peeler's judgement call.

[fermain]

there can be only one...

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[big mervyn]

there can be only one...

UAFCFLEG.gif

I do like that logo - red hand,white background, 9 counties, not much more needed. I reckon that would be even better without the saltire. Not that I've anything against it, I just like the simplicity. Bit like the old classic white shirt with the red hand - so much better than the ad boards that have become a commercial necessity these days.

[AyeYerMa]

I'm a bit concerned about the depiction of a hand with five, unwebbed fingers.

I believe this could lead to some visitors from more... traditionally rural... Areas to feel excluded.

[Surrey Red Hand]

there can be only one...

UAFCFLEG.gif

I do like that logo - red hand,white background, 9 counties, not much more needed. I reckon that would be even better without the saltire. Not that I've anything against it, I just like the simplicity. Bit like the old classic white shirt with the red hand - so much better than the ad boards that have become a commercial necessity these days.

Quite like that one meself Merv ...?

The St Patricks Saltire is not widely flown in the ROI (IF at all) as it is part of the Union Flag to represent the WHOLE of Ireland under British rule at that time, so surely that flag itself is more questionable to a section of our community than the actual 6 county Ulster flag could be .. no?

At the end of the day my experience in N.I. amounts to - certain people WANT to be offended, one doesn't even have to try and NOT flying this or that flag will NOT make one iota of a difference to these characters

[stickinout]

BR,

Interested to hear when that happened. Where they from another Irish province supporting Ulster as the last Irish team left in competition, e.g. in the '99 final at Lansdowne?

The time that springs to mind was in Toulouse. I was obviously too scared to speak to those involved, because with a flag like that, undoubtedly they would have been eating their own children and would have tried to convert me to some terrorist cause , but I got the impression they were ex-pats (maybe students). Whether they were Ulstermen or supporting a sister province, I cannot say, but their support was appreciated.

Thanks for elaborating BR

[stickinout]

Sorry Petey but may i play devil's advocate and say this: what if everybody started waving swastikas on red backgrounds and SS flags? Would you not take any offence to that?

Playing Devil's advocate or just being a pedant? It always amuses me the idiotic extreme's some people will go to in an attempt to prove their point. The swastika and flags of the SS are explicitly linked to anti-semetism, rascism and genocide, perhaps you could enlighten me as to what other flag that might be flown in support of Ulster Rugby that has such extreme links?

There is a socially acceptable line which I think everyone is aware off, to suggest that flying the union jack or NI flag is in some way the same as flying a flag of a regime that was responsible for the murder of millions of people then you sir are an idiot of the highest order.

You might as well have asked would it be acceptable to fly a "UVF For God and Ulster" flag or a an IRA banner with "Tiocfaidh ár lá" on it. They both unacceptable and would cause offence to any right minded person because these are expressly political, representing organisations that murdered people in cold blood for no other reason than some misplaced sense of identity.

Flying the union jack in TP may indeed have been a political gesture but by the same token it may not have been, I don't know the reasoning behind it and nor do you so I would suggest you, and the others trying to make something out of not a whole big pile, climb down from their precious pedestals as this debate has got beyond tiresome.

Settle down petal. The point i was making was that Petey said he wouldn't get offended by the flying of any flag at a rugby match. Yes my example was extreme as an example of flag waving but if people on threads about flegs/threads hijacked by flegs state something as open ended as above i think it's fair to query it just to make sure. I have no agenda on flagwaving Bucky, but on the point of inclusivity or making new supporters for UR from the nationalist community then I'm sorry but the NI flag represents only one tribe...... them's the facts. However Petey is right IMO on the following point, we should leave political crapola outside Ravenhill and i think most people do, but from the outside I wonder if it looks like there's a welcome at the door for all comers? I too am a non fleg waver Petey us non fleg wavers should maybe get our coats, sorry if it sounded like I was having a pop at you, the statement read very open ended.

[stickinout]

Again, the divide here is not between Ulster Rugby fans, and people put off by the emblems. It is between fans who are seeking to be as inclusive as possible (even at a cost), and those who prefer to exercise and protect their right to fly whatever flag they want.

I think that is a pretty good summary of things.

+1

[stickinout]

But my Bahrani fleg - to bring or not to bring ? - any advice folks?

I thought that would be a no-bahraner.

TAXI!!

[stickinout]

I wonder will the Leinster guy be bringing this one tomorrow...

Nice one, the dawn of the Leinster age. Don't know which country/territory this belongs to, thought it was Kiribati but i was wrong. Answer please BR

[Rooster]

I wonder will the Leinster guy be bringing this one tomorrow...

Nice one, the dawn of the Leinster age. Don't know which country/territory this belongs to, thought it was Kiribati but i was wrong. Answer please BR

Title: Sunburst (Fianna na hÉireann) Flag
Description: This flag represents the youth wing of the Irish Republican Army (IRA). Fianna na hÉireann literally means warriors of Ireland, taken from an ancient Celtic legend. The symbol of the sunburst can be seen on some Republican murals, highlighting the dawn of a new era.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/symbols/flags.htm

[stickinout]

OneMore; the major issue is that there are very few flags and banners in Northern Ireland that someone or other won't find offence or politics in. The trouble is not in what people take offence it but in the legitimacy of those claims. I think it's very legitimate to take offence at a Nazi emblem, for example; it's fairly objectively accepted by most sane people that the Nazi-era is a disturbing black mark over history. It's less clear cut when it comes to emblems in Northern Ireland, simply because, as I said, people can take offence at just about anything - anything can be construed as political.

Absolutely on the mark, even if we get to the stage where new emblems or symbols are devised that both sides agree upon (will that ever happen?) there'll still be people who will be offended!

I agree that, as an Ulster fan, I do not want to give the impression, personally or collectively, of Ulster being a team that represents one section / class / creed of the society of the province or of being a fan base that is drawn exclusively from any one section / class / creed of that society but I also hate the notion of someone deciding what is objectively okay to wave at Ravenhill.

Totally agree, the nanny state is not the way forward. I think in the future if we see plenty of yella flegs and red and white flegs it may send out the right message. All welcome!

[stickinout]

Thanks Rooster

[stickinout]

there can be only one...

UAFCFLEG.gif

I do like that logo - red hand,white background, 9 counties, not much more needed. I reckon that would be even better without the saltire. Not that I've anything against it, I just like the simplicity. Bit like the old classic white shirt with the red hand - so much better than the ad boards that have become a commercial necessity these days.

I think you're on to something Merv, white flag red hand, very striking and maybe no political baggage........ could make yella ones with red hand too just to keep all the bases covered. surprised UAFC don't have a wide variety of originally designed flegs on sale at their shap.......... now how about half a white bedsheet, tin of red paint and does anybody know a man with hands like a longshoreman ?

[Snipe Watson]

How on earth did this thread get all the way to the question of (un)acceptance of Nazi flegs at Ravenhill?

Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies