Ireland v Argentina........Nov 2012

[ruckover]

I also think that Luke Marshall should start at 12 ahead of Paddy Wallace for Ulster in a H Cup game before he gets the 12 green shirt.

I would agree D4. I would like to see Marshall and Gilroy starting ahead of Wallace and Trimble before they start for Ireland. And in my opinion, they could (not should, before anybody starts reprimanding me) be starting ahead of them already, and may be by the end of the year if their form continues.

Since when was that a pre-requisite for getting an Irish shirt...sure getting your fotie taken with with a Hurley bat in your hand is all that is required.

I never said you needed to be starting for your province, I simply said I would like to see them starting for us first. Simple matter of opinion

[browner]

So you don't agree with D4 then?

[ruckover]

So you don't agree with D4 then?

D4 didn't say Marshall needed to start ahead of Wallace, he also said he thought he should start ahead of Wallace first.

[browner]

Well I THINK Marshall NEEDS to get his fotie taken with a Hurley bat in his hand before he gets an Irish shirt ok

[Thelaw]

So you don't agree with D4 then?

D4 didn't say Marshall needed to start ahead of Wallace, he also said he thought he should start ahead of Wallace first.

I think Paddy Wallace has been a great servant for both Ulster and Ireland. I for one will never forget that superb performance in the six nations against England a few years back. However I do believe that we should remember young Luke is the future, and we should not fall into the trap so many of us are accusing off: that of playing the Name and not performance. Ulster need to give the lad a go as starter, just as we did with Nevin.

However he is so far ahead of D'arce that I can't believe anyone would NOT pick him.

I will be starting a new Cry in the Fishbowl on Saturday, - PUT MARSHALL ON!!!

[Dublin4]

I am flattered that many are attempting to read my mind on this thread!
To be as clear as possible, my opinion is that Luke Marshall must start at 12 or wherever at Ulster in a big game ahead of Paddy Wallace before he can really challenge for a green shirt in the position. There are exceptional circumstances where this rule of thumb is not followed such as Rhys Ruddock being capped down under but that was when needs must.

[BaggyTrousers]

I also think that Luke Marshall should start at 12 ahead of Paddy Wallace for Ulster in a H Cup game before he gets the 12 green shirt.

I would agree D4. I would like to see Marshall and Gilroy starting ahead of Wallace and Trimble before they start for Ireland. And in my opinion, they could (not should, before anybody starts reprimanding me) be starting ahead of them already, and may be by the end of the year if their form continues.

Impressive as Marshall was at the weekend it is fair to say he was against players who would struggle in the Rabo by and large so impressive yes, but a sense of perspective is needed.

I normally subscribe to the theory that a man should be the best at his club to play international rugby, appears a given. Not so for Ireland in a few positions at least, one of which happens to be 12.

Thing is both D'Arcy, hardly revered outside Dublin & Wallace, similarly regarded outside Ulster I'd wager yet these two guys are undoubtedly considered the best at their clubs for now. Wallace now appears to have run his international race despite the odd call up in the summer. D'Arcy the absolute opposite, can't get off the team despite a run of pretty wretched/ moderate at best, Irish form.

In these circumstances I can see justification for a young guy on the way up getting games if the coach has faith. In my opinion Marshall is a better player at his age than Paddy Wallace was. I accept that if Paddy hadn't been pushed around positions he wasn't cut out for he may have been a top class 12 earlier.

Anyway, I'd also say the fact that Fat Deccie is well able to play TH for Ireland is another pointer to a position where being the best at your club is never quite that simple a requirement. Fat Deccie will never be better than Big John but can be good enough for Ireland if he was ever to be fit for a period.

That said I think the principle you guys suggest is pretty sound.

[shamalicious]

My thoughts as well Baggy, well put

I'm as big a fan of Luke's as any, but Paddy has been playing particularly well of late. Let them share the shirt this season.

[breakdown]

Very well put Bagster, but I just watch the game from Saturday again and keep a close eye on Marshall and he generally just oozes class, and I also agree with Ruck that he could well be our starting 12 by the end of the season. As fine as PW is and has been he isn't getting any younger so we really need to look at Luke Marshall now, I for one am sure that he is more than ready and capable to make the step up to be the starting 12 in the league and the HEC

[ruckover]

So what Ulster players are actually going to be involved this week instead of sitting in the stands? Henry and Bowe should start, and it sounds like Gilroy's got the nod at wing as well. Henderson on the bench and possibly Jackson after his performance last Saturday? Think Luke Marshall will miss out, but I'm not starting that again. Not bad, but should be more.

[Snipe Watson]

Marshall was there for Fiji as an up and coming player. He is still behind Paddy here and I still agree with that selection. I don't think he was ever going to be involved this Saturday. If D'Arcy or Earls are injured, McFadden will be in the side. Why are Luke and Darren being held against their will in Elmers compound? Can we get an SAS team to liberate them and a few others?

[Setanta]

I actually thought that Trimble was getting back to his aggressive best this season so I'm more than abit surprised by some of the comments here. Just because the Southron press claim he was indecisive on a few occasions against RSA doesn't necessarily make it true. Sure Gilroy deserves a go and it can't be in place of Bowe or God forbid the boy genius so it has to be Trimble. Fact but it doesn't mean I have to believe all that's written.

[bazzaj]

I loved the opening article about the rivalry between these two sides and I think over the last decade or so these teams have been on an even power.
At the minute with our injuries and their participation in the championship it has given them a definite edge for Saturday.
They will need no motivation and I am left to wonder just how we are going to beat them regardless of selection.
Player for player they are better but they have played a lot of hard games in recent months, basically 8 games against the top sides in the world.
I hope they are battle weary rather than hardy as a result and home advantage will count for something as I would not give us a sniff if it was anywhere else.
We will need to up our game massively from the SA match to have any chance.
Sorry for the lack of patriotism but I am taking 20-25 or a score in it any case, in their favour.
I can only hope for one of those traditional Irish rabbit out of a hat performances we come up with when we our backs are against it.

[KingLuba]

Despite the OP I've never had anything other than respect for the Pumas.

They play with a pride and togetherness i've never witnessed in an Ireland team. Their performance at the RWC 2007 has never been matched by any Ireland side and dont give me all this weeping over ROG, he's always been happy to dish it out so should've been man enough to take it back without crying about it to make a few quid in an autobiography.

The pumas added a freshness and passion to the old tri-nations and have clearly improved for their experience. They mix genuine desire of the forwards like Lobbe, Albacete and Ligizamon with talent in their backs, Hernandez, Contepomi, Agulla, Amorosino, Camacho et al.

A powerful opponent and one I admire. Im looking forward to the game but wont be baying for Argy blood, indeed I hope for a high scoring match with Ireland sneaking it 35-32 and wee Gilroy nipping in with the winning try.

[mea97mb]

So DK really looking to the future in only making 1 change and starting Gilroy on the left wing.

Aparently D'Arcy gets the nod at 12 because he played against SA and has more experience Luke Marshall's time will come apparently according to DK, probably means that he won't start for Ireland until this time year at the earliest!