Lions squad announcement

[Rooster]

Who?
Mayne or Gatty?

On a serious note, I would be worried that the Lions will break into two camps, the Welsh against the rest.

Their Welsh, there'll be at least 4 camps of them on their own!

Loads of sheep in Australia, at least they will be happy at night.

[Shan]

1) It's about a bunch of guys from all different backgrounds coming together and, it may sound ridiculous in this modern world, but becoming more than they can be separately. That goes for any team in sport but in a particularly physical sport like rugby it's truer than ever.

I agree but this is all possible without the Lions. Even on a small though beautiful Emerald Isle this is possible.

In Irish rugby there's more than enough diversity in the backgrounds of players and supporters. From the sophisticated suburbanites to the muck savage semi literates there's more than enough different shades in between. Players won't become better on 5 week tours where there's only 3 matches against meaninful opposition.

2) it's about friendships made with compete strangers through a mutual respect for the game that we love.

Agree again entirely but yet again there is no requirement for Lions tours for this. This sounds like you are coming more from the supporter side because of "game that we all love" and there is no reason at all to suppose that we cannot do this through our club matches and international matches against our 6N friends which if I am not mistaken take place each and every year.

3) it's about character.

Ah go on will ye for the love of my great friend. What am I supposed to do with this? Yer an awful one altogether with something this vague. I am starting to think maybe Sky Sports should be looking to sign you up for their coverage. You never know. You could be the next Dewi Morris. How do you like copying everything Barnesy says but trying to make it sound like yer own opinion? Gwan to feck.

4) it's about respect for yourself, the game, and your opponent.

I agree of course. Yes the LK we know so well is back. This is one of the most important things for me in rugby. This is what had traditionally lifted it above a lot of other sports for me. I'm going to give you this one. I could justifiably argue this can be done without requirement for Lions tours but you know what....I have seen plenty of evidence of players from different nations really embracing this even more than usual after they have spent time together on Lions tours.

In fact, I agree with this.

"Life's Pitch"

Smoke of steam rising from the scrum,
The roars and cheers as the half backs run,
The cries and moans as the impacts rain,
As 30 young heroes soak up the pain.
The power, the strength, the brutal glory,
Contained in each game is life's true story,
Of commitments made to those around,
To spill your blood on hallowed ground.
As life goes on the team mates differ,
A wife, some children or whatever.
The character shown when you played the game,
Is now displayed when you feel life's strain.
To win, to lose, whether poor or rich,
Life's lessons learnt on a rugby pitch.

Ridicule away chum.

Very nice but nothing remotely related to the Lions or a discussion on same. However thanks for posting it old bean.

[Neil F]

Sky had an interview with someone from the Aussie Sports network, he was amazed that Best had not make the squad considering the havoc that he caused Australia in the RWC 1/4 final

On serious rugby matters, and playing devil's advocate:

If there is an expectation of a properly balanced backrow (and I don't believe that the group of Lydiate, Warburton, Tipuric, O'Brien, Heaslip and Croft, it exists) what Best does becomes a bit redundant in the overall balance of a team. He will therefore be judged on his inherent abilities fulfilling the role of hooker and his throwing has been subjected to a lot of scrutiny recently. I don't buy it all being Rory's fault, by the way.

This isn't to say that I think his exclusion is right. Far from it. I am utterly baffled by it and this non-selection has turned me off the Lions in a way that I haven't been turned off an increasingly frustrating Ireland in recent times. I think this is a very, VERY poor selection - along the lines of Woodward's. I don't see how the squad will work; I think it's very much based on assumption, as I think a lot of Wales' (and Gatland's) recent success has been.

[ruckover]

Neil, I get what you're saying, but Best is by far the best hooker available for the Lions, whether the balance in the back row makes his breakdown ability unnecessary. His scrummaging is matched by none and even though the back row may do most of the work, he will add even more. Quick ball is essential in any match, so the more great breakdown players you have the better. Best should be there, end of. His omission is simply unjustifiable.

The Beeb had an interview with Willie John McBride who said that the Lions must become as close to a family as possible in order to succeed - if there are any internal rifts then that could spoil the mood of the entire camp. While I am not saying there will be, I agree with others that the large numbers of Welsh players in the squad combined with the Welsh coach could be detrimental. I hope I am wrong.

[Hans Indaruck]

That was "before" he'd killed anyone Snipe!

The '38 tour.

If you read about him, the war started just in time!

But he did kill a Springbok (animal type) and hang it out of the team's hotel window - just to send a wee message to the Saffas!!
That's a touch of class when it comes to team bonding and getting the gander up!!

[Snipe Watson]

That was "before" he'd killed anyone Snipe!

I didn't mention the war......

[Russ]

I'd best less drunk at the Rory omission if it wasn't that prat Hartley

As for BOD, congratulations, he is someone special.

As for Warburton, he isn't even the best 7 in Wales! And is he by feck the best 6 on tour!

As for the rift, it will be 3 fold

Welsh
The Hartley club
The rest

Utter clusterballix

[Russ]

Stuart Hogg will cover at 10

[bazzaj]

Shan - Johnson didn't really have an aura about him before he went in '97 did he?? he hadn't even captained his club at that stage. His selection as captain was completely out of the blue. It was an inspired choice though.

The lack of Laidlaw surprises me. As does the inclusion of that Sarries bloke BBJ destroyed at Twickenham ahead of Ryan Grant. There is a lack of craft in midfield if BOD doesn't play as well.

As for Hartley's inclusion - I recall McGeechan saying that Lions selection was as much about character as talent. Obviously not a philosophy adopted by Gatland.

I agree with this.
If anything is to be learnt from previous tours it is as much about the character of the player and how he fits in as well as the talent.
Hatleys inclusion baffles me as it was with Haskell and Ashton that destroyed the England team in the last WC.
Rory Best is a top man who would have thrived in the company and been a great driving force for the side even if he wasnt in the test team, much in the same way as Jason Leonard was.

With the likes of Hartley, Heaslip, Roberts, Healy, Phillips, Youngs and Kearney there is is plenty of ego to keep in check on this trip.
Someone like Warbuton is an ideal choice for captain from that viewpoint as he has humility and comes across well.

Laidlaw surprised me too simply because of his goal kicking which is excellent and he can play 9 or 10.
You need those sort of guys on tour as last time we had a test centre pairing at one point of Bowe and Phillips.

My main disappointment lay with Gatlands selections being safe with no frills.
I think in a squad of 37 you could afford to take the odd risk such as Zebo,Henderson, Twelvetrees, Visser or Owens as they could well have been shooters.
Vunipola and Murray are possibly the only ones who qualify this time.
Maybe he thinks the tried and tested will be good enough without the need to risk but he has spent most of his coaching career giving youngsters the chance to shine, usually with spectacular results.

[Red]

He's picked a squad to win. To him the best shot at that given the short time frame they have to work with the players is

1. Keep it Welsh, he knows the Welsh
2. Forget any fancy stuff, that takes too long to gel, keep it simple for simple minds
3. Play the numbers (Roundtree admitted as much), use the stats, make the hard yards
4. Try and outmuscle them from 1 to 15. Smash up the relatively small Aussie backline with big units like North, Cuthbert, Bowe, Tualagi, etc

It's not the BaaBaas, it's the Lions. Gatland isn't looking to entertain, he's looking to 20 years hence when he can look back and say he took a squad to Australia and won. The history books will omit that they didn't play much rugby and just dug out the results, if that indeed happens.

I'm disappointed and uninspired with the squad, but I understand his reasoning (with the exception of Best's ommission). I think he needs more leaders, more character and WAY MORE flexibility in his squad (Hogg at 10, mental ...). He thinks he needs to keep it simple and overpower them.

[Red]

I also agree on Laidlaw, he's actually a very decent player. And would have been more than capable playing 9 or 10 for the mid week games.

There's also only 1 dedicated 12 in the team. The other centres are 13s, with Maitland and Bowe I think able to fill in at 13. God knows what will happenif they lose Jonathan Davies, who Wikipedia says started at outside centre only 3 years ago. Farrell to 12 maybe.

[oneshot7]

with 5 welsh back rows going is Gats essentially saying that the Wales reserve back rows are better or more capable than the starting ones from the other nations?

[rumncoke]

Why anyone considers Zebo as possiblity really is surprising . He is Earls mark two without a defence . Excellent finisher good under a high ball but Aussies outhalfs don't kick .

Must say Gartland has not continued the practice of picking a couple of young players -- the last Lions contained Earls and Fitzgerald who I think were in their 1st season at the time. North and Cuthbertare both in their second.

I can't actually see this tour being a bunch of laughs to be honest too many Welsh faces and two many old hands

He looks as if he has fallen into the same trap as Woodcock -- who picked an over the hill English pack to match with an Irish backline with Wilkinson at out half except this time its a Welsh backline ( bar out half ) with a mixed pack.

He has only one recognised 12 BoD Tuliagi and Davies are more experienced at 13. A backline of Roberts and Tuliagi the wings won't see the ball.

[ruckover]

Couldn't resist myself, here is the breakdown by club:

6 - Leinster Rugby, Leicester Tigers
5 - Ospreys
4 - Cardiff Blues
3 - Saracens
2 - Scarlets, Newport-Gwent Dragons, Munster Rugby, Glasgow Warriors
1 - Bayonne, Toulon, Northampton Saints, Ulster Rugby, Sale Sharks

And by league:

24 - RaboDirect Pro12
11 - Aviva Premiership
2 - Top14

And by country:

15 - Wales
10 - England
9 - Ireland
3 - Scotland

[rumncoke]

Shan

Few players become better players on a Lions tour but occasionally a good player looks better because he is playing with better players.

Of course the reverse is also true some players get found out because they can't raise their game to the collective standard of the squad.

If Warburton captains the test XV i don't expect to see PoC in the second row I see PoC as the pack leader of the non test XV