Lions squad announcement

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Russ
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Russ »

ruckover wrote:Couldn't resist myself, here is the breakdown by club:

6 - Leinster Rugby, Leicester Tigers
5 - Ospreys
4 - Cardiff Blues
3 - Saracens
2 - Scarlets, Newport-Gwent Dragons, Munster Rugby, Glasgow Warriors
1 - Bayonne, Toulon, Northampton Saints, Ulster Rugby, Sale Sharks
Leinster - we beat twice
Tiggers - we humped
Ospreys - thumped them in Wales, lost with a skeleton at Ravers during the dark days
Blues - humped (twice)
Saffacens - stars
Scarlets - thumped
Dragons - thumped
Munster - gave us 2 good games
Warriors - had them in our pocket all year
Bayonne - not played
JWT - JWT
Saints - stars and we thumped them then forgot how to play
Sharks - LOL

I think we have the right to feel a little hard done by

Anscombe for the Lions in 2017!
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Deckard
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Deckard »

Red wrote:He's picked a squad to win. To him the best shot at that given the short time frame they have to work with the players is

1. Keep it Welsh, he knows the Welsh
Part of the problem is right there for me - under Gatland, Wales have played Australia 9 times.... and have managed 1 win, 5 years ago in 2008!!!! I have long been of the opinion that Wales are massive bluffers/very lucky - their 6 nations record on face value is impressive, but they have punched well above their weight and ridden their luck, bearing in mind that Ireland under Kidney, and France under Lievremont and then St-Andre have been dysfunctional under-performers. After about the third 6 Nations weekend, when you could see a clear path through to a Wales championship win, the thought that occurred to me was that the Aussies would be absolutely delighted with a Wales 6N, and a Welsh-packed Lions squad - because they have Wales's number big-time..

on the rest, a day's reflection hasn't made the Best omission any more explicable or defensible. it's one of the most cretinous selections that I can remember in modern Lions history (and I include SCW's squad...) The lack of option at 10/12 is equally bizarre - ok Barritt isn't the most exciting or interesting player, but I'd actually rather see him or D'Arcy in the squad than Davies (I actually really like Davies, but haven't been over-impressed this season). The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to think that leaving Madigan behind was a mistake - strange thing to say about someone who hasn't had many caps, but you have to bear in mind the Kidney-factor. Hogg covering 10? Has anyone ever seen him play 10? Sounds like bollo to me..

As for Croft - that is utterly bizarre to me.. It reminds me of the selection of Balshaw last time - how many Lions tours do you need to show a guy is not at the level??? I would have taken any of Wood, Robshaw, Henderson, Brown, Beattie ahead of him. I struggle with Murray as well - I can only imagine that Gatland somehow sees him as a Phillips-lite player for the dirt-trackers.. Ignoring the fact that he is only Phillips-lite in the fond imagination of the Irish press, lacking Phillips' pace, dynamism and, most importantly, decisiveness.. Forget about Care and Laidlaw, I would have taken Boss or any of the Welsh second stringers ahead of him...
bazzaj

Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by bazzaj »

Red wrote:He's picked a squad to win. To him the best shot at that given the short time frame they have to work with the players is

1. Keep it Welsh, he knows the Welsh
2. Forget any fancy stuff, that takes too long to gel, keep it simple for simple minds
3. Play the numbers (Roundtree admitted as much), use the stats, make the hard yards
4. Try and outmuscle them from 1 to 15. Smash up the relatively small Aussie backline with big units like North, Cuthbert, Bowe, Tualagi, etc

It's not the BaaBaas, it's the Lions. Gatland isn't looking to entertain, he's looking to 20 years hence when he can look back and say he took a squad to Australia and won. The history books will omit that they didn't play much rugby and just dug out the results, if that indeed happens.

I'm disappointed and uninspired with the squad, but I understand his reasoning (with the exception of Best's ommission). I think he needs more leaders, more character and WAY MORE flexibility in his squad (Hogg at 10, mental ...). He thinks he needs to keep it simple and overpower them.
Woodward went with his tried and tested and was a disaster from day one.
I appreciate the BaaBaas comment but I think you may have misconstrued what I was saying.
I am not talking about flair in the players selected but flair in the selection itself in terms of boldness and courage of bringing some talented players the Aussies wont know too much about.
it has to be a relative combination of the tried and tested with the potential shooter.

Look what history tells us.
The success stories of the tour are not necessarily the seasoned test players who rise to the occasion but the talented rookies that coaches were prepared to gamble on, who bring something of the unknown to the party.
On previous tours players like Bentley, Millar, Guscott, Greenwood, Davidson, Paul Wallace, Richard Hill, Johnson, Leonard, Tom Smith, Jason Robinson were all players who starred despite limited international experience at the time.
Hardly all Barbarian type selections.
All their reputations were forged on the back of Lions tours.

I think its only a few who catch the eye for this reason,Hogg, Maitland,Tom Youngs, Vunipoloa and Tipuric that could be considered under the same category.
I maintain that the likes of Zebo, Launchberry, Twelvetrees, Ken Owens, Visser, Madigan, Henderson are the types of player who thrive on a tour like this.
Like I said other than this and the half back selections and Hartleys inclusion I can have little complaint.
We know what to expect from the squad so as sure as heck the Aussies will know.
Whether they can do anything about it is another question that Gatland is banking on they cant.

To Deckard
About the Welsh, Wales have come within a whisker of beating Australia each time they have played them recently.
Throw in the likes of BOD, Sexton ,SOB and POC and it would have been good enough to beat them on each occasion.
I get his logic and I expect a series win-no excuses.
Red
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Red »

You misunderstand me. I merely aim to explain what I think Gatland is thinking. I don't agree with it.
bazzaj

Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by bazzaj »

No I think I got that red and I understood what you were saying and I am in complete agreement with you.
I am just pointing out that I disagree with Gatlands thinking and clarifying what I meant by his picks being safe with no frills.

The Aussies are tradionally the best out of the box thinkers who generally are reknown for rugby intelligence in order to outsmart the opposition.
Their defence is second to none at its best in terms of organisation as England found out last year.
They would want us to play an arm wrestle, hard yards type game as its what they are preparing for and Gatlands selections reflect that.

Make no mistake they have been thinking of little else since the last world cup and I personally dont know if it will be good enough to turn up and blugeon them into submission as that would be exactly what they are expecting.
I really hope Gatland has something up his sleeve in case that does not work.
He normally does.
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Russ
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Russ »

^^^ the reserves :)
bazzaj

Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by bazzaj »

Appreciated Russ but was thinking more in a tactical sense.
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Snipe Watson »

It's a Wales development tour.
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Article »

Snipe Watson wrote:It's a Wales development tour.
+1 that's what it is make no mistake . But let them have it we have Messer Schmidt >gimmefive
bazzaj

Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by bazzaj »

Who are they developing?
All the Welsh players are well established.
Percentage wise its as even a split as I could have anticipated.
Bangors
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Bangors »

The Aussies are the people who refined Sledging into a Fine Art
I'm sure that they can't believe their luck with Hartleys selection
-- a yellow/red card waiting to happen

PS expect Ulster to draw the Saints in next seasons H Cup - cant wait !!!!!!
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Snipe Watson »

bazzaj wrote:Who are they developing?
All the Welsh players are well established.
Percentage wise its as even a split as I could have anticipated.
there are 3 or 4 welsh players who are very lucky to be on tour.

Wales can field a team of 14 Lions in the 6N next season. In what way is that not a massive boost for them?
Last edited by Snipe Watson on Thu May 02, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
remould
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by remould »

Even though I keep telling myself that Tommy Bowe will make the test team and that will keep me interested,I can't get "into" this lions tour hype.......no Rory,no interest!
Red
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Red »

Apologies if its already been mentioned, but given the selection criteria, you've got to fancy that as a big, physical unit who runs straight, Trimble has to be the next in line for a call up if there are any injuries.
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Snipe Watson
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Re: Lions squad announcement

Post by Snipe Watson »

Red wrote:Apologies if its already been mentioned, but given the selection criteria, you've got to fancy that as a big, physical unit who runs straight, Trimble has to be the next in line for a call up if there are any injuries.
Visser
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