Wolf Puppies V Fiji

[ruckover]

France win 9-8

[Setanta]

Shame but with injuries and the Players not there, ist not too surprising. They did very well and nearly beat the Blacks; if the IRFU do not take this competition as seriously as others then the outcome will not Change. Good to see two NH teams in the final and with Players like Olding, Scholes, Taylor, Donnan joining Henderson, Marshall, Allen, Farrel etc., future's looking good.
Still think Olding and Marmion would have been better off with their team-mates than in the US/Canada.

[Dublin4]

Setanta
I am pleased to see you share my view on this.
The IRFU paid a heavy price for not sending the entire u20s to the tournament.
How long before we get another shot at beating the baby blacks?

Next year the JWC is in NZ. Game over before we go.

[Neil F]

Setanta / D4; in part, I agree with you both - the fact that Marmion got zero minutes of rugby this summer is absolutely disgraceful. Actually, I think Marmion is a serious future option in a position in which Ireland are incredibly weak and it baffles me why he was taken to North America to play no rugby.

That said, it was perceived last year that Jackson was better off with Ulster than Ireland U-20s and I think the same would equally go for Olding being with a fairly senior Ireland setup. Even if Olding didn't play every minute, it is probably of more benefit to the player and to Ireland, long-term, to have him in North America. I think Ireland have often been criticised for not giving young, talented players a go, early enough. In that respect, Olding should have been with the senior squad. The Junior World Cup is for the best junior players and the likes of Olding are beyond that level, already. They'd look good in that tournament, yes and they might help Ireland succeed in it but it doesn't mean it's best for Ireland or the player to be there. What is bizarre is why Downey was selected for the second test. A true sign of giving a guy a cap for the sake of a cap if ever there was one...

[rumncoke]

My take on Olding was he could have caught the bug

There is a tendency to say if a player isn't playing rugby then he isn't learning anything I don't buy into that idea.

If Players have the potential to be top provincial and international players then they will learn more with mature players than they will with a lot of keen wet behind the ear former schoolboys many of whom won't progress to Professional rugby.

It is also better to training under the eye of the future Irish coach than someone whose function is to identify the wheat from the chaff when it has already been decided the players with the Ireland squad are not chaff. Game time is not that important to them at 20 because they have still to mature physically what is important is that they absorb the wisdom from the experience of others.

My gut feeling is that Jackson last year would have learnt little playing with U20s and gained more from the intensive instruction and training with the Ulster coaches.

Madigan is 3 years older than Jackson yet Jackson was picked to play out half for Ireland before Madigan my own opinion was that it may have been a season too soon for Jackson.

[The FRU]

Shame but with injuries and the Players not there, ist not too surprising. They did very well and nearly beat the Blacks; if the IRFU do not take this competition as seriously as others then the outcome will not Change. Good to see two NH teams in the final and with Players like Olding, Scholes, Taylor, Donnan joining Henderson, Marshall, Allen, Farrel etc., future's looking good.
Still think Olding and Marmion would have been better off with their team-mates than in the US/Canada.

Marmion to old to go. I assume you meant Olding and Henshaw.

The U20's certainly punched well above their weight considering the fairly limited team they sent and in theory the addition of Olding and Henshaw could have been the quality that pushed then into the top four. Conversely two "superior" players could have unhinged the team dynamic which was really very good.

[Setanta]

I did indeed mean Henshaw (sorry, dementia sets in...). Perhaps it is NZ and Wales that are out of step but while the U20s are their second Teams it is not a level playing field at this competition. Perhaps England with their depth will be the exception that proves the rule but it will be a rare exception.

[Russ]

Any chance of us poaching Marmion before Leinster do, or before he is given a central contract and sent to Munter to sort their finances?

[ruckover]

Any chance of us poaching Marmion before Leinster do, or before he is given a central contract and sent to Munter to sort their finances?

For his development I'd like him to stay at Connacht for one or two more seasons, although I would expect Leinster to be looking at him. By all means, when Pienaar eventually goes I'd love to see Marmion in an Ulster shirt, but right now he'll learn so much more by starting every week for Connacht than he will sitting on the bench for us.

[Scranner]

Who's to say he would even make our bench? Marshall's not going anywhere and, while Pienaar is with us, that's his spot.

[Neil F]

Who's to say he would even make our bench? Marshall's not going anywhere and, while Pienaar is with us, that's his spot.

With or without Pienaar, I'd say anyone who expected Marshall to be Ulster's starting scrum-half at any point has overestimated his [Marshall's] quality and game management. Marshall is an impact sub and nothing more. If he's Ulster's starting scrum-half post-Pienaar, we've got a problem. Marmion seems to have future international written all over him. He has looked the business for Connacht this season and whilst I agree with Ruck that it's better for him to stay, I would like to see him in an Ulster shirt. Actually, I'll rephrase that, I'd prefer to see him in an Ulster shirt than a Leinster one - in an ideal world, Connacht would be able to hold onto the likes of Marmion, McSharry, O'Halleron and Henshaw, which I think would not only be good for Connacht but good for Ireland but that's an aside.

[Thelaw]

Who's to say he would even make our bench? Marshall's not going anywhere and, while Pienaar is with us, that's his spot.

With or without Pienaar, I'd say anyone who expected Marshall to be Ulster's starting scrum-half at any point has overestimated his [Marshall's] quality and game management. Marshall is an impact sub and nothing more. If he's Ulster's starting scrum-half post-Pienaar, we've got a problem. Marmion seems to have future international written all over him. He has looked the business for Connacht this season and whilst I agree with Ruck that it's better for him to stay, I would like to see him in an Ulster shirt. Actually, I'll rephrase that, I'd prefer to see him in an Ulster shirt than a Leinster one - in an ideal world, Connacht would be able to hold onto the likes of Marmion, McSharry, O'Halleron and Henshaw, which I think would not only be good for Connacht but good for Ireland but that's an aside.

I'm a huge beagle fan - he is the perfect impact sub. But that is it. I would love Ulster to poach him - why the hell should we sit back and let Leinster / Munster do all the stealing.

[Neil F]

No disagreement, here, Lawman. Would rather Marmion at Ulster then either Leinster or Munster. At the same time, unless the other Irish provinces stop poaching every remotely talented youngster that comes through Connacht, the bottleneck of only three real teams feeding into the Irish national set up is going to continue and that is detrimental to both Ireland and some of the players involved. In that respect, I hope Connacht can hold onto the very talented-looking youngsters currently at the provinces and can build on that.

[Scranner]

Who's to say he would even make our bench? Marshall's not going anywhere and, while Pienaar is with us, that's his spot.

I meant that Pienaar is our starting 9 and will probably start the majority of games during the season. Marshall will come on as impact sub - for the majority of our games. Were Marmion to come here, he would in all likliehood get very little game time - unless there was a succession plan in place for when Ruan leaves - which is not beyond the bounds.

Does anyone know what Ulster are planning for Heaney?

[ruckover]

Does anyone know what Ulster are planning for Heaney?

I'd like to hope a lot, I was very impressed by him this season, I'd like to see a lot more next season. Although if we did sign Marmion then Heaney would probably be on his way again.