OK Doaky, so where are we now?

[ruckover]

I saw Ruan quoted in an interview a few weeks ago saying he was hoping for a bit of a break sometime soon. We may be without him too.

[BaggyTrousers]

If MCKinney is not to get a chance to perform I can't honestly see the point in giving him a contract in then first place.
He has not been given a chance yet so let's look at him first before writing him completely off as others did with PJ.
They look positively stupid now.
If Olding is to be seen as back up he will need time there.
We have cover and adaptability everywhere else and its a bit of russian roulette to put out eggs in one basket for such a key position.
With our must win pressure games behind us for a bit I think we will be looking at squad rotation now and the likes of Doyle getting a look in as well.
I think we will lose a good few in the autumn internationals so we will not have a choice.

Jizzer, in the name of the sweet Lord holy fack, that is an even worse post than Red's betting nonsense on Saturday, get a grip on yourself man or I'll have to taunt you most severely.

1) Have you ever heard of the Ravens? The place for the less than abundantly talented to either sink or swim & earn promotion.
2) of course Olding should have time at 10 when GP is starring for Ireland, now the problem is you can't have it all ways, do you want Olding to get starting time or McKinney? HINT: You can't have it every way, McK to bench if we are stuck is the correct answer.
3) Having GP, Ruan, Olding, Wallace all able to play 10 to a higher level than McKinney is NOT putting yer eggs in yin basket. They are 4 internationals, 3 of whom have played international rugby at 10.

Now get with the programme Jizzer FFS. You've been helped.

[boyg]

When Stuart Olding arrived it was to develop and cover Jackson at 10. After his initial sortie at 10 many on this forum thought he was not the answer. Pushed into service at 12 with the catalogue of injuries in the midfield he suddenly became first choice centre. He has been magnificent since his introduction at 12 but we have an embarrassment of riches at 12 with Stuart, Luke Paddy and Chris Farrell all vying for the one shirt. I think some game time at 10 now, with the experience, not to mention confidence, he has gained at the tail end of last season he will slip into that role much comfortably. I would bet my house we will lose PJ to Ireland for the Autumn internationals so we badly need cover in that area. Ruan does not want to be the answer. I fear like other posters that James is not up to this level although until he is truly tested we will not find out. His appearances at the beginning of the season was not in a team brimming with confidence. If he was behind the forward performances we have seen over the last few weeks I think we would be in a better position to judge his ability. However it should be noted that Luke Marshall was the preferred choice at 10 in their first year in Irish Schools and Paddy was the preferred choice the following year. That would suggest even the coaches have never really had confidence in him.

[bazzaj]

If MCKinney is not to get a chance to perform I can't honestly see the point in giving him a contract in then first place.
He has not been given a chance yet so let's look at him first before writing him completely off as others did with PJ.
They look positively stupid now.
If Olding is to be seen as back up he will need time there.
We have cover and adaptability everywhere else and its a bit of russian roulette to put out eggs in one basket for such a key position.
With our must win pressure games behind us for a bit I think we will be looking at squad rotation now and the likes of Doyle getting a look in as well.
I think we will lose a good few in the autumn internationals so we will not have a choice.

Jizzer, in the name of the sweet Lord holy fack, that is an even worse post than Red's betting nonsense on Saturday, get a grip on yourself man or I'll have to taunt you most severely.

1) Have you ever heard of the Ravens? The place for the less than abundantly talented to either sink or swim & earn promotion.
2) of course Olding should have time at 10 when GP is starring for Ireland, now the problem is you can't have it all ways, do you want Olding to get starting time or McKinney? HINT: You can't have it every way, McK to bench if we are stuck is the correct answer.
3) Having GP, Ruan, Olding, Wallace all able to play 10 to a higher level than McKinney is NOT putting yer eggs in yin basket. They are 4 internationals, 3 of whom have played international rugby at 10.

Now get with the programme Jizzer FFS. You've been helped.

It is putting your eggs in one basket Baggy if you are not prepared to give anyone else a run in that position.
Put it this way has anyone else had any real game time at 10 so far this season other than PJ?

Olding has played there once from memory on his debut v Munster when we took half a team down there last season.
Wallace is old and crocked and was thrown in there last season with little success.
RP is a 9 who looks out of sorts defensively when he has played 10.
Playing 10 is not a position you can revert to at the drop of a hat.

10 is position that requires game time to understand the attacking and defensive aspects of the team and is the most influential position on the pitch.
Not a position that you could throw anyone into any more that throwing a prop into hooker to do a job.
The point is we need a settled back up 10 not someone pressed to do a job be that McKinny or whoever.
I talkfrom the experience as a previously pressed 10 myself but no doubt I am about to be told different

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Olding has played there once from memory on his debut v Munster when we took half a team down there last season.

Olding was on the bench for that one and came on in the 2nd half (& kicked a conversion). NOC was the starting 10 that day

[rumncoke]

Baz

FFS give it a rest you only change horses when you have to not to indulge a whim " lets develop X as a cover for Y"

The game is such that players will get their opportunity because injuries happen ,international call ups happen , sometimes players need a week or two to get over a series of minor injuries and get mentally in the frame again,you don't need to make changes just for the sake of them.

I'm sure the Pro12 can be physically and mentally demanding with the number of air trips the players make , Ok they may not be quite as bad as taking the kids on holiday but it might be close.

The players and the coaches will have a better grip on when players need a rest and who to play than either you or I

[BaggyTrousers]

Baz

FFS give it a rest you only change horses when you have to not to indulge a whim " lets develop X as a cover for Y"

The game is such that players will get their opportunity because injuries happen ,international call ups happen , sometimes players need a week or two to get over a series of minor injuries and get mentally in the frame again,you don't need to make changes just for the sake of them.

Excellent work Rum'n, saves me having to taunt him for a while yet.

Get that grip I was on about Jizzer, no point in looking a twerking muppet unless absolutely required.

[Amiga500]

FFS give it a rest you only change horses when you have to not to indulge a whim " lets develop X as a cover for Y"

The game is such that players will get their opportunity because injuries happen ,international call ups happen , sometimes players need a week or two to get over a series of minor injuries and get mentally in the frame again,you don't need to make changes just for the sake of them.

Christ on a bike.

In one sentence you say don't develop cover, in the very next you say players will get chucked in at the deep end due to injuries/call-ups etc but its grand to do that.


If NOC had got no game-time last year at all - we'd have been royally f**ked when we had to go to the two Italian teams. Thats the bottom line for me. He wasn't the most convincing fly half ever... or even close - but by f**k he bailed us out of the sh!tter.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

If NOC had got no game-time last year at all - we'd have been royally f**ked when we had to go to the two Italian teams. Thats the bottom line for me. He wasn't the most convincing fly half ever... or even close - but by f**k he bailed us out of the sh!tter.

Prior to the two away matches in Italy, NOC didn't get that much game time. He came on as an early sub for Pienaar the week before the Zebre match, and prior to that hadn't even been in a match squad for 2 months. He started one match and came on as a sub in another at the start of the season when other players were still on player management enforced breaks.

[Amiga500]

And we're coming up to the Autumn internationals, where we could conceivably be without:

- Paul Marshall
- Paddy Jackson
- Stuart Olding
- Luke Marshall


That is 3 of your fly-half options gone ... with Paddy Wallace still injured 4/5 fly-half options gone [and Paddy didn't exactly cover himself in glory last season in Weegieland].

You could also lose your backup scrum-half... so you've a choice between RP at 9 or 10. I'd put him at 9, at least then you've the option of a 9 man game and you don't have the stand-off picking the ball up from his ankles.


Do we need to start McKinney this Friday? Hell no!

Do we need to consider giving him a bit of game-time over the next couple of weeks? I would think it very prudent.

[Rooster]

Do we need to consider giving him a bit of game-time over the next couple of weeks? I would think it very prudent.

Played 2 matches for the Ravens and that should have got him in some sort of action

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Do we need to consider giving him a bit of game-time over the next couple of weeks? I would think it very prudent.

Played 2 matches for the Ravens and that should have got him in some sort of action

Watched him against Jersey and he still doesn't impress me. Goal kicking was good, although he totally mis-hit one that he probably should have nailed, and then he appeared to mis-hit his last one which I was nearly directly behind - it was headed well wide, then seemed to take a gust of wind and was fluked between the posts .... either that or the best piece of judgement to aim so wide of the mark deliberatly to allow for the wind.

The rest of his play didn't impress me.

but what would I know?

[Rooster]

Do we need to consider giving him a bit of game-time over the next couple of weeks? I would think it very prudent.

Played 2 matches for the Ravens and that should have got him in some sort of action

Watched him against Jersey and he still doesn't impress me. Goal kicking was good, although he totally mis-hit one that he probably should have nailed, and then he appeared to mis-hit his last one which I was nearly directly behind - it was headed well wide, then seemed to take a gust of wind and was fluked between the posts .... either that or the best piece of judgement to aim so wide of the mark deliberatly to allow for the wind.

The rest of his play didn't impress me.

but what would I know?

That sorts that then, Ruan plays 9 and passes direct to 11 or 13 if no forwards available.

[Ringer]

MckInney will undoubtedly get opportunities over the next 4 rabo games to prove whether he can step up to that standard. He was poor in pre season against Leinster but nerves may have been a factor.

Olding is much more preferable choice at 10 provided Ruan is there to do the goal kicking. Luke Marshall also played a lot of his rugby at Ballymena and in Ireland under age teams at 10 so he could also be an option to look at if McKinney doesnt prove himself capable of doing a job.

[Windeos]

OK, we will lose PJ and Luke to Ireland in November. Paddy won't be back till December at earliest. We are left with 2 options at 9, 10, 12
1.) Small Paul, Ruan, Olding
Or
2.) Ruan, McKinney, Olding

I don't want to see Olding being moved around and becoming a utility back. It destroyed Paddy's early career. I would like to see Olding tried at 13, working with the extra space would be interesting. I'm a member of the Cave for Ireland club as well might I add.

I've been talking about giving Olding a real shot at 13 since he came onto the scene with a lot of people telling me to wise up. I completely agree about Olding with extra space, he has one of the best steps in Ireland and with his lightning acceleration as well he could be a really top option at 13.

Again I'm a big fan of Cave as well and see him as our best outside centre but we need to develop more depth at 13 and with the log jam at 12 it would be a good idea to check out Olding at 13 imo.

My starting backs during the November internationals would be:

09: Pienaar
10: McKinney
11: Allen
12: Olding
13: Cave
14: Trimble/Gilroy (whoever is available)
15: Payne

On the bench I'd have Porter, Farrell and Scholes with the idea of moving Olding to 13 in the 2nd half to introduce Farrell at 12 and Scholes to join the action for some game time at wing or full back. Scholes looked an incredibly exciting talent during the underage world cup so I'd love to see him getting some time and even though Farrell looked poor at the start of the season it would be good to get him back involved.

We should be perfectly capable of fielding a strong back line still.