Ireland v. New Zealand

[BuckRogers]

You talk some utter nonsense sometimes ballybagsters. ireland were all over the place. At least twice irish players were on their backends and playing the ball with their feet. Green shirts were hitting rucks from all angles never mind through the gate - did u actually watch the game at all?? I don't think NZ got a penalty the entire 1st half. Even an irish try had a knock on.... sheesh the list is endless.

You have to have some kind of standard for refereeing. If that is how the game should be played, then all refs should be aiming for that standard. To have some kind of officiating which means any guy with a whistle turns up and refs how he likes is total and utter nonsense but no surprise to come from someone of your nonsensical brain....

I too think you are talking crap ATH. Ireland met the physical challenge of NZ at the breakdown and triumphed where some teams are simply not allowed to by referee's. Too often the AB's get away with murder, keeping hands feet and arms all over the ball and tackled player which put teams at a distinct disadvantage. Owens allowed competition for the ball but he did not allow the ball to be played illegally by either side. Owens is, quite rightly IMO, considered one of the best referee's in the world at present and has been up there for the past two to three years. I don't think I have seen or heard anyone really criticise his performance whilst I have seen it lauded in print and social media by Non-Irish fans and past players such as LBN Dallaglio.

[BaggyTrousers]

Apologies if already posted but very good analysis here of the lead up to the last try:

http://www.thescore.ie/analysis-ireland ... 0-Nov2013/

Interesting read but 20:20 hindsight is pretty easy, doubtless though there is a lot of truth in it.

On a slightly different tac, I haven't yet re-watched the game but watching the clip of the last couple of minutes 1 thing was confirmed to me that I felt watching live, some or many Mexicans should stop reading now.

One selection I was baffled by, no not Tuohy being ignored, was Quiff instead of Jackson. Jackson as we all know can tackle well above his weight. We were sold the notion that Quiff's inclusion was down to versatility so we had Quiff to cover 10 & centre, possibly full back also.

So what happened? BOD goes off but does Quiff enter the fray? Not on your nelly, on comes the hapless oaf Fitzgerald so why was Quiff preferred can someone remind me?

Now take a look at the closing couple of minutes and look at every instance where Quiff was involved - he is like a fart in a trance, completely ineffectual. Would Ginger Prince have done better? We will of course never know but if Quiff was there to cover centre, why did Fitz take precedence when the call had to be made on BOD?

Of course, like Score.ie, I lean heavily on perfect hindsight. Interesting call on the use of subs just the same, eh? If Quiff is as versatile as he is alleged to be surely the subs should have been Isaac, GP & Quiff if Fitz was genuinely the next best option, he is close to useless, the backs equivalent to wee Mike McCarthy.

Ach, I'm only saying.

[Scholar]

...

[Spiffsson]

Apologies if already posted but very good analysis here of the lead up to the last try:

http://www.thescore.ie/analysis-ireland ... 0-Nov2013/

Interesting read but 20:20 hindsight is pretty easy, doubtless though there is a lot of truth in it.

On a slightly different tac, I haven't yet re-watched the game but watching the clip of the last couple of minutes 1 thing was confirmed to me that I felt watching live, some or many Mexicans should stop reading now.

One selection I was baffled by, no not Tuohy being ignored, was Quiff instead of Jackson. Jackson as we all know can tackle well above his weight. We were sold the notion that Quiff's inclusion was down to versatility so we had Quiff to cover 10 & centre, possibly full back also.

So what happened? BOD goes off but does Quiff enter the fray? Not on your nelly, on comes the hapless oaf Fitzgerald so why was Quiff preferred can someone remind me?

Now take a look at the closing couple of minutes and look at every instance where Quiff was involved - he is like a fart in a trance, completely ineffectual. Would Ginger Prince have done better? We will of course never know but if Quiff was there to cover centre, why did Fitz take precedence when the call had to be made on BOD?

Of course, like Score.ie, I lean heavily on perfect hindsight. Interesting call on the use of subs just the same, eh? If Quiff is as versatile as he is alleged to be surely the subs should have been Isaac, GP & Quiff if Fitz was genuinely the next best option, he is close to useless, the backs equivalent to wee Mike McCarthy.

Ach, I'm only saying.

Yes. I did not understand that substitution when it happened, as Quiff seemed to the the designated midfielder. I am not an admirer of Fitzgerald but he did put in a daycent tackle or two and had no chances in attack at all.
Still terribly upset that Ireland gave that one away with stupid tactics. If you are going to sit on a lead, or are too knackered to do much of anything, the old fashioned simple tactic of kicking the ball into the corners (into TOUCH that is) and challenging the lineout is as good as anything. Kicking the ball into NZ HANDS is signing yer own death warrant.

[BaggyTrousers]

I don't want to carp too much after that performance but having first seen Ireland V NZ in 1973 (can't remember in the 1963 match was televised but have no memory of that 5-6 loss) in the 10-10 draw with BJMcGann just failing with the late conversion, I had kind of got used to the fact that I would never see an Ireland win in the fixture so that was a gutting way to have the hopes shattered yet again.

I suppose its hard to be critical of selections when so much appeared to go right & some guys performed as I didn't believe possible either through age or ability, D'Arcy the former, Toner & Fattie Ross the latter.

I have seen Irish teams who you know are beaten as early as the anthems, must say when I looked at Heaslip, Healy & Kearney Major I thought they had something going on, we are giving it plenty today, about them, Rory too when I think about it, but then you expect it from him.

Very much liked what Sean O'Brien has been saying, maybe a leader in waiting, he certainly would be a man to lead by example.

[shamalicious]

I have seen Irish teams who you know are beaten as early as the anthems, must say when I looked at Heaslip, Healy & Kearney Major I thought they had something going on, we are giving it plenty today, about them, Rory too when I think about it, but then you expect it from him.

Did you see POM at the end of Amhrán an bhFiann Bags? Looked like he was ready to rip someone's head off. Actually screamed/ roared the last 2 lines. Was quite funny

[BaggyTrousers]

I have seen Irish teams who you know are beaten as early as the anthems, must say when I looked at Heaslip, Healy & Kearney Major I thought they had something going on, we are giving it plenty today, about them, Rory too when I think about it, but then you expect it from him.

Did you see POM at the end of Amhrán an bhFiann Bags? Looked like he was ready to rip someone's head off. Actually screamed/ roared the last 2 lines. Was quite funny

Yes Shammy I should have added him to my list of those with serious intent, indeed he looked so keyed up he was almost in tears as I saw on my crystal clear big new TV, shame it wasn't in 3D

Speaking of Amhrán an bhFiann, interesting that 2 of the 3 Ulstermen actually sang it - note to Darren Cave, forget the French classes, do Irish & you'd never know yer luck..

[Shan]

Speaking of Amhrán an bhFiann, interesting that 2 of the 3 Ulstermen actually sang it - note to Darren Cave, forget the French classes, do Irish & you'd never know yer luck..

“I can still feel the tingle that went down my spine when I first heard the national anthem at Lansdowne Road as an Ireland player,” he recalls. “Some may find that difficult to understand from an Ulster Protestant. But it was such an honour. The ultimate one was actually captaining your country. That was very special.”

He was pretty special as well.

[Shan]

Did you see POM at the end of Amhrán an bhFiann Bags? Looked like he was ready to rip someone's head off. Actually screamed/ roared the last 2 lines. Was quite funny

Funny yes. But what passion. Almost on a par with the Ireland v England game at Croker. Now let's see it every fecking game. I'd prefer to be amused at anthem time and then see a fire and thunder performance than see us going through the motions before and during the games.

[Dave]

After reviewing the game again, I don't think I've seen the ABs play a worse half of rugby all year. On the other hand I haven't seen us play better in the last 2 years. NZ usually dominate the contact and breakdown area, but we seemed to truck it up right through them with every player, even Devin Toner and D Fitz looking like worthy ball handlers. Question that is troubling me is, were we that good or were they simply falling short of their own high standards?

[Russ]

Played, or weren't allowed to play

Ireland did not let NZ into the game in the first 35 minutes.

[shamalicious]

Did you see POM at the end of Amhrán an bhFiann Bags? Looked like he was ready to rip someone's head off. Actually screamed/ roared the last 2 lines. Was quite funny

Funny yes. But what passion. Almost on a par with the Ireland v England game at Croker. Now let's see it every fecking game. I'd prefer to be amused at anthem time and then see a fire and thunder performance than see us going through the motions before and during the games.

Absolutely Shan

[rumncoke]

The difference between Ireland v Australia and Ireland v New zealand was the back row turn up against New Zealand with SoB deserving MOTM .

Secondly New Zealand failed to get the ball wide quickly because they played with a flat back line whereas Australia attacked Ireland wide running from deep.

The two early trys by Ireland where hard worked head down forward efforts. RoB Kearney's was a steal.

The problem for Ireland in the second half was getting possession in the New Zealand half and you could see that the penalty for Ireland was connived by that i mean the catch and take was designed for the penalty because there was never any intention to release the ball to the backs but have New Zealand penalised for either in at the side or collapsing the maul .

I feared after Sexton missed the penalty it was Ulster v Glasgow mark 2 .

The worst thing you can do 5 minutes before the end is miss "a game safe "Penalty

Firstly it provides the opposition with hope and secondly it changes your teams mind set from attack to defence and thirdly because the opposition have an increased sense of purpose they tend to keep the ball in hand and in play by quick recycle taking advantage of both physical and mental exhaustion.

There are those who when I said going for the penalty against Glasgow was a mistake and the moment when Ulster lost the game might now realise the conclusion had merit.

That does not mean i blame Sexton for Ireland's defeat missing penalties can happen to anyone any time and in fact I would have Sexton as second in line for MOTM .Taking penalties when the concentration is reduced and the body tired is not easy. it should be borne in mind that Cruden missed his first attempt at the end.

Now for the retake final kick question was Nigel right or wrong to allow a second kick?

The Irish players started their run when Cruden performs an on the spot two step before his kick which he repeats on the second Kick

Does that on the spot two step part of his run up . Personally I think it does.

Nigel's performance in the first half I think Ireland had the advantage of his laxity which seemed to based on a " I won't blow the whistle if the ball is played quickly and I don't see the infringement " attitude at the end of the match I have the impression he went looking for the infringement and Mc Carty fell into his trap.

The change in attitude may have been induced by a belief that Ireland were playing or wanting to play a slow recycle game whereas Nigel as stated previously wanted the ball in play quickly.

The desire was consistent the means may have been less so.

[promenader]

Played, or weren't allowed to play

Ireland did not let NZ into the game in the first 35 minutes.

Just watched the 2nd half again and it wasn't the case that Ireland went into their shell and gave up the game. Bearing in mind that it was the ABs we were playing, Ireland still did enough 2nd half to win that game. Two moments of indiscipline (Toner, McGrath) and Sexton's missed kick were the difference between us getting mugged and closing out the game with a wee bit to spare. Credit to the ABs, though. Don't think any other side in the world would have capitalised on those errors with such ruthlessness the way they did.

[shamalicious]

Bragbet have paid out 10/1 for punters who bet on Ireland winning out of pity:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingne ... 15296.html