Leinster v Ulster

[Amiga500]

surprised more wasn't made of Gilroy's mistake in not passing to Payne to surely put him over..

It was an absolutely shocking error.

Anscombe should absolutely tear into him over it.

[Amiga500]

No, Our 8 was outplayed, man for man, in almost every aspect of he game, from scrums, L/out and loose, from start to finish. In any pro game, you will have at least small periods when on top, even if just because of opposition subs and dropping intensity. Lets not kid ourselves.

Hyperbole.

We had them for 15 mins of the 2nd half when the subs came on. Then Leinster got 2 pens against the run of play and the heads went down again.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

What question did he ask for the try?

Looked awfully like a forward pass, wondering was it checked

He asked "Try or no try? The pass was okay. Good try.

Don't think so. I'm fairly sure he asked the TMO to check the grounding and the last pass.

Not often this happens, but you are correct, Snipe

[Cockatrice]

surprised more wasn't made of Gilroy's mistake in not passing to Payne to surely put him over..

It was an absolutely shocking error.

Anscombe should absolutely tear into him over it.

He has destroyed other lesser players for much less

[bazzaj]

I kind of get our starting tactics.
Looking at the the sides before the game we had a possible edge in the front 5 whereas the one worry was SOB and their back row.
We therefore did not want to get into a multi phase game where SOB is most effective but to neutralise his threat by playing it tight and territorial.

It made sense but our kicking was completely inaccurate and our lineout feel apart.
As an example the superb Reggie Corrigan in commentary asked why Herring was over throwing when Leinster werent competing?
That comes down to a lack of intelligence and thats what disappointed me as we did not change what clearly was not working until the late introduction of Payne who mixed things up by playing ball in hand.

To beat Leinster at their place we need to combine accuracy with intelligence and intensity.
I`m afraid we were sadly lacking in all 3 departments

I don't buy the SOB scenario Baz. We should have been exploiting our midfield superiority rather than trying to negate their back row advantage. We had the Irish 10, 12 &13 (according to this board) against two youngfellas and Gopperth who is a good player. Why were we kicking to their best 3 players?

surprised more wasn't made of Gilroy's mistake in not passing to Payne to surely put him over.

It was a howler, but would have taken little of the bad look off the performance.

I am not trying to justify those tactics snipe but simply trying to get my head round them, assuming of course they were playing to a plan and instruction.
We tend to get bogged down in these kicking exchanges and the only time we have totally tactically out kicked an oppo in my memory was the Ospreys away this season.
Its just not good enough to win away against a side like Leinster who will not give you anything.
Where we always look best in with ball in hand especially with our wings who love countering.
Teams dont generally like being run at in loose play and last night was reminiscent of the of Irelands idiotic tactics kicking down Folaus throat for 80 minutes.

[againstthehead]

No offence but that's a load of nonsense. When you play a quality side you need to be playing in the right part of the park - i.e. their half. Their backrow was savaging us at the breakdown and to go through phases in our half would have been suicidal. i.e. a penalty fest and they probably would have been out of sight at half-time. In saying that, our kicking game was pretty ineffective in terms of putting pressure on the catcher. In contrast Leinster themselves hoofed a fair bit of ball in the 1st half, put pressure on our young full-back and acquired possession in our half and subsequently went through the phases. So the tactics were about right, but the execution as you have highlighted was abysmal. So I wouldn't blame the coaches, rather the players.

PS those kicking tactics by Ireland won a 6N... albeit the rules were different back then.

[Spiffsson]

I kind of get our starting tactics.
Looking at the the sides before the game we had a possible edge in the front 5 whereas the one worry was SOB and their back row.
We therefore did not want to get into a multi phase game where SOB is most effective but to neutralise his threat by playing it tight and territorial.

It made sense but our kicking was completely inaccurate and our lineout feel apart.
As an example the superb Reggie Corrigan in commentary asked why Herring was over throwing when Leinster werent competing?
That comes down to a lack of intelligence and thats what disappointed me as we did not change what clearly was not working until the late introduction of Payne who mixed things up by playing ball in hand.

To beat Leinster at their place we need to combine accuracy with intelligence and intensity.
I`m afraid we were sadly lacking in all 3 departments

I don't buy the SOB scenario Baz. We should have been exploiting our midfield superiority rather than trying to negate their back row advantage. We had the Irish 10, 12 &13 (according to this board) against two youngfellas and Gopperth who is a good player. Why were we kicking to their best 3 players?

surprised more wasn't made of Gilroy's mistake in not passing to Payne to surely put him over.

It was a howler, but would have taken little of the bad look off the performance.

You would have thought that going into the game. On the day, the two Leinster youngfellas in the centre, outplayed their Ulster counterparts. Like all supporters' boards everywhere, perhaps we do tend to over-rate our own and under-rate the opposition.

[scrum5]

If that was the tactics then surely Paddy Wallace should have started at 12 rather than Luke Marshall. I too would like to see someone other than Paul Marshall and Ricky Andrews starting and someone else on the bench other than McComish, now the question is who?

Scholes, Nelson or Gilroy over Andrews
Heaney or Porter over Beagle
Now the difficult one, Conor Joyce has had limited exposure and hasn't had ample opportunity to impress, Faloon should never have been allowed to leave but worse still, after rave reviews out West he should have been brought back but instead signed for another 2 years. We also missed out on Robin Copeland to Munster who have more depth in the backrow than we do. Also noticed that in the academy set up on UR that Conor Joyce is the only back row forward and it doesn't appear that this on-going problem is being addressed.

[Snipe Watson]

What question did he ask for the try?

Looked awfully like a forward pass, wondering was it checked

He asked "Try or no try? The pass was okay. Good try.

Don't think so. I'm fairly sure he asked the TMO to check the grounding and the last pass.

Not often this happens, but you are correct, Snipe

I'd normally retort with a reference to you being a comedian, but we both know that's too much of a stretch...............

[BaggyTrousers]

I am shocked that our 10,12 &13 appear the subject of such scorn given they got nothing to play with all night. As CIMAN says our pack was second best all night in every respect.

Let's accept that this was a defeat based on a humiliated pack and a 9 who should have been shipped out when the opportunity was there.

[Snipe Watson]

I am shocked that our 10,12 &13 appear the subject of such scorn given they got nothing to play with all night. As CIMAN says our pack was second best all night in every respect.

Let's accept that this was a defeat based on a humiliated pack and a 9 who should have been shipped out when the opportunity was there.

That is true, but we kicked everything in the first half. Why did we do that when Marshall and Cave should have been putting manners on the two upstarts with ball in hand? We allowed them into the game and got their confidence up. Shocking tactics.

[Spiffsson]

I am shocked that our 10,12 &13 appear the subject of such scorn given they got nothing to play with all night. As CIMAN says our pack was second best all night in every respect.

Let's accept that this was a defeat based on a humiliated pack and a 9 who should have been shipped out when the opportunity was there.

Bags, I think "scorn" is too strong a word. We all know what our midfielders are capable of, but I do believe they had an off night and looked jaded in all respects, despite your valid point that they were playing behind a beaten pack (their fellow backs offered little as well, with Gilroy wasting a try scoring pass and Andrew having a general howler). Payne quickly showed when he was subbed on what a team can do with limited possession. If we praise 'em up when things go well, it's OK to have a little critique now and then when they don't.
Overall, Ulster just lacked any fire in that game and were lucky not to have been humped by a bigger margin. Munster will have fire in spades next week, so we'd better get the finger out and not allow ourselves to be bullied again.

[Jackie Brown]

We looked like we were playing to avoid injury. Big 3 weeks ahead!

[ColinM]

No offence but that's a load of nonsense. When you play a quality side you need to be playing in the right part of the park - i.e. their half. Their backrow was savaging us at the breakdown and to go through phases in our half would have been suicidal. i.e. a penalty fest and they probably would have been out of sight at half-time. In saying that, our kicking game was pretty ineffective in terms of putting pressure on the catcher. In contrast Leinster themselves hoofed a fair bit of ball in the 1st half, put pressure on our young full-back and acquired possession in our half and subsequently went through the phases. So the tactics were about right, but the execution as you have highlighted was abysmal. So I wouldn't blame the coaches, rather the players.

PS those kicking tactics by Ireland won a 6N... albeit the rules were different back then.

Not the first post I've read excusing our 'young' fullback as though his youth is an adequate pardon for not catching one all night. Myself, I tend to be of the view that a 24 year old should be hitting his straps as a pro, not being excused for youthful folly.

[Snipe Watson]

24-30 are the peak years. I do question his selection for this game. He came on against Edinburgh (I think) and made a couple of very good runs, but other than that, I've seen nothing to suggest that he is the calibre of player we need. Why was Gilroy not started there given that he will presumably be covering 15 for the two HEC games in January and Allen is a considerably better player than Andrew. Another questionable call by management.