Jerome Garces

[Beattiespastie]

Catch yourself on! Weak/ strong ref? What a load of crap! Payne was unlucky/ careless but devoid of intent and he nearly had his own head taken off...Let's take a look at Burger diving in head first leading with his forearm into rucks with bad intentions and going completely unpunished! Ulster lost the game as a team and did so with fantastic spirit and pride.! Payne did not cost us the game.. The decision against Payne gave Saracens a man more but Ulster never took a backwards step... SUFTUM.!

[OneMore]

I'm pretty sure Goode suffered concussion. Obviously being st the ground, and not being a trained member of the medical staff makes my opinion worthless, but I'd put a lot on him having been concussed.

Only one person cost us the game, and it's Jared Payne. It was stupid and reckless (though very well meaning). A weak referee would say 'it's the first 5 minutes, I'll just make it yellow'. A strong referee gives the same decision in the first as he would in the last.

Well if you read what I said he must have made the fastest recovery in history and I would say you are totally wrong in your diagnosis

Maybe. And fair enough.

But it wouldn't be thanks to Payne that he wasn't concussed. The guy went down on his shoulders and head.

[Snipe Watson]

if there had been any inkling of intent in that 'tackle', Payne would not have tackled Goode with his face.

Now Tazz I do know and I suspect you probably know too that intent is not part of the law.

[againstthehead]

I have no idea if it was a red. I really try to look at these things impartially but it's impossible. The closest thing I can think of is Warburton in the RWC semi.

on jared's defence:
- his eyes were on the ball and there was NO INTENT whatsoever

against him:
- he never made much of an attempt to get off the ground to compete for the ball. the defender probably has rights to the ball in the air so if you're competing you need to be careful what you do.

So i really don't know. The more I watched, I started to wonder was it even a penalty FFS. Perhaps someone can post what the law actually states. Like I say, I imagine the attacker has some responsibility not to take out the defender, eyes on ball or now.

For me, it was a yellow but by the letter of the law maybe it was a red. I don't know.

[Snipe Watson]

Had it been one of our players, we would have wanted red.
Think of it like a tackle where a player is tipped.

[againstthehead]

Had it been one of our players, we would have wanted red.
Think of it like a tackle where a player is tipped.

ur prob right snipers. I guess what frustrates us is that there was no intent or malice. Indeed, he was just going for the ball. What more should you do? Not look at the ball but look where players are? How do you know where the ball is then?

But I know what ur saying Snipe. A red can probably be justified.

[Rooster]

Had it been one of our players, we would have wanted red.
Think of it like a tackle where a player is tipped.

Certainly not Snipe it was a yellow at worst and possibly only a penalty, 2 players competing for the ball

[Snipe Watson]

Had it been one of our players, we would have wanted red.
Think of it like a tackle where a player is tipped.

Certainly not Snipe it was a yellow at worst and possibly only a penalty, 2 players competing for the ball

If it had been the other way around, I would argue that Goode never got off the ground so he wasn't competing for the ball. he was reckless causing Jared to land on his head and shoulders and that's a red card. I'm gutted and the fact that 14 players were so heroic doesn't help at all. I'm not blaming Jared either, well I am, but I'm not setting blame for the defeat at his door.

[Kingketch]

At the time I thought it was red, and with every replay I thought Jared is off. Agree no intent but his actions were extremely dangerous as he didn't seem to have a clue where Goode was and he piled into him while Goode was in the air. Can't believe anyone would seriously be saying yellow if Ashton had done the same to one of our players. ....unless of course we had won

[davejohnston]

Had it been one of our players, we would have wanted red.
Think of it like a tackle where a player is tipped.

I can see your point, but with a tip tackle the player goes in with a certain intent to tackle the player. The video replay showed Payne was looking at the ball and therefore competing. So at worst a yellow.
Even Will greenwood said across the world that would be a yellow ( before praising the ref for taking stern action this time).

Anyway your entitled to your opinion, but I think the ref was wrong, and throughout the match he went on to miss and ignore infringements all over the place

[rocky]

Fundamentally disagree, Snipe. Yellow was appropriate maybe but red was a joke. The referee defined the game in the fifth minute.
If that had been the end of his poor decisions, I could maybe have tholed it but he went on to make several more terrible decisions and there were three or four occasions when a yellow against a Saracen would have been justified but he took the coward's option every time. A spineless performance from M Garces, one of the worst refereeing stints for years. And to lose in that manner to that shower makes it all the harder to stomach.

[davejohnston]

At the time I thought it was red, and with every replay I thought Jared is off. Agree no intent but his actions were extremely dangerous as he didn't seem to have a clue where Goode was and he piled into him while Goode was in the air. Can't believe anyone would seriously be saying yellow if Ashton had done the same to one of our players. ....unless of course we had won

Bear in mind that it's a contact sport. At what point should players stop competing for the ball incase they hurt someone ? Infact if anything the laws discourage awareness. In 9 out 10 times you have an eye I the ball your grand. If your see to stop look, around and the continue your gona get Red for intent.

[Snipe Watson]

Fundamentally disagree, Snipe. Yellow was appropriate maybe but red was a joke. The referee defined the game in the fifth minute.
If that had been the end of his poor decisions, I could maybe have tholed it but he went on to make several more terrible decisions and there were three or four occasions when a yellow against a Saracen would have been justified but he took the coward's option every time. A spineless performance from M Garces, one of the worst refereeing stints for years. And to lose in that manner to that shower makes it all the harder to stomach.

I thought it was harsh, but I'm reporting what a top local referee said. I tried to get another ref on the phone, but his phone was off.
The fact that it was the fifth minute is irrelevant.
I agree, he had no control over the game at all and allowed Burger for one to act the thug all night.

[troupe86]

This was, without doubt, one of the worst 'refereeing' decisions I have ever seen on a pitch (both in terms of playing and spectating). Although some will argue that the 'letter of the law' will dictate a red and that the French referees take into account the 'injury' involved, what protections can be provided to an opposition player who has his eyes firmly on the ball and intends to take it whilst running? Consider also the implications and/or possible injury to Payne as a result of his collision: if he went off injured, but not on a stretcher, would he still have been given a red card? Where do you draw the line?!

I'm not normally one to gripe about referees, as they have a difficult job at times dealing with a plethora of concurrent incidents/events during a match, but Jerome Garces was completely inept from start to finish. There was no consistency, there was no acknowledgement of other foul play during the game, and there was no acknowledgement of the laws at the breakdown.

Disgraceful.

[Gary]

To those who think that Payne was correctly red-carded even though he did not intend to endanger his opponent, I again ask if this means that all penalties awarded for taking a man out in the air should lead to a red card.