Caveman vs THE PAIN

[Cornerfleg]

It's an even stronger promise than that Cockers ... it was a 'verbal' agreement ... dictum meum pactum ...


Sort of as binding as Moses coming down from Mount Sinai with a 13 shirt in his hand ... and the people said amen!


Maybe our Glorious leader wanted a sick Cave to be so bad that when Payne arrived it would be a road to Damascus for all us plebs ... like when Commodus fought Russell Crow in Gladiator after stabbing him ... ironically the result was somewhat similar though!

[Russ]

If Cave was sick, as it would appear, a sensible coach would have mentioned this after the match. Could even have tried to use it as a wee excuse for our second-half performance. I just can't help thinking that the substitution would have happened in any case.

Gary... From my understanding he was sick during the week so who knows what our sensible coach was thinking... Maybe he thought it was important to start with an obviously ill Cave rather than rest him. Maybe he wa always going to bring Payne on at 15 and move Ludik to until Cave got too ill to continue on....

My question is how long this experiment is set to continue but then again we have to remember that Payne give up his life in NZ to come here and we contractually we him the 13 shirt.

Sean Doyle is a big cheerleader for Payne at 13

[GLENN CORNICK]

I think Cave reads the game better generally in the close combat situations, so to speak. Payne is more effective coming from full back where he can scan the field in front of him and then make telling incursions.

[Ampersand]

I think Cave reads the game better generally in the close combat situations, so to speak. Payne is more effective coming from full back where he can scan the field in front of him and then make telling incursions.

TRANSLATION:

Cave = 13

Payne = 15

[Snipe Watson]

If Cave was sick, as it would appear, a sensible coach would have mentioned this after the match. Could even have tried to use it as a wee excuse for our second-half performance. I just can't help thinking that the substitution would have happened in any case.

Gary... From my understanding he was sick during the week so who knows what our sensible coach was thinking... Maybe he thought it was important to start with an obviously ill Cave rather than rest him. Maybe he wa always going to bring Payne on at 15 and move Ludik to until Cave got too ill to continue on....

My question is how long this experiment is set to continue but then again we have to remember that Payne give up his life in NZ to come here and we contractually we him the 13 shirt.

Sean Doyle is a big cheerleader for Payne at 13

Don't tell Mike.

[Russ]

Can Cave play 6?

[Ampersand]

Can Cave play 6?

Apparently on Sunday he played sicks

[Russ]

Can Cave play 6?

Apparently on Sunday he played sicks uker:

No in all seriousness

He can carry
He can link
He hits rucks
He can tackle
He has pace

If Jihad wants to play 13 then maybe Cave can play 6

[BuckRogers]

I think Rum has made a fairly salient point that appears to have been missed amongst the rabble. The Payne at 13 will, IMO, probably only last up to or around the RWC.

Payne, and I am informed this is gospel, has always preferred 13 to 15. I claim not to be privy to why this is but he was certainly a pretty decent 13 in his last season or two with the blues.

His presence and performances at 15 brought him to the attention of many and he was rightly lauded as a genuinely excellent 15.

He had been promised he would, at some point, get a run at 13 hence the ballocking about towards the end of last season. This was done on account of BOD clearly not playing beyond the end of last season and no rap credible alternative to the greatest Irish player of the professional era if not one of the greatest ever.

Henshaw was raw, Cave never really laid down a marker at the top level, Earls injury prone, Fitzgerald ditto. Now you could put a decent argument together that Cave never got a proper chance but plus ca change.

As it stands Henshaw will, probably, partner Dorse in the midfield in the 6N and we will also, likely, see Payne on the bench covering 13/15 with Kearney or Henshaw able to cover wing.

Ireland, due to BOD's, longetivity needed to have two 13 options going into a 6N and RWC. They seemed to have plumped with the potentially outstanding Henshaw and very skilled kiwi as their options. I imagine they thought Payne's transition may have been smoother and I equally imagine there is probably some dismay it hasn't.

I further imagine once we get the RwC out of the way Ulster may have an easier time playing Payne at 15 and Cave at 13 and we can live happily every after.

Ps the above is in the most part my supposition apart from the second paragraph.

Pps Cave recently signed a new deal...do you really think he would have signed if he wasn't content in the knowledge that he would get a fair crack at the whip? Good me neither.

[BuckRogers]

Would Cave be a better 6 than Diack....discuss.

[Cockatrice]

Buck.... My fear is another couple of months of this brad pitt and things mightn't be able to revert back so easy...

[Jackie Brown]

I can't be the only one who would like to see the back of Payne.
His lack of humility after he destroyed our best chance in Europe. He didn't seem to realise how much his moment of gross stupidity affected his team mates or us as fans.
His ability as an Antipodean to jump ahead of other players without having to display any ounce of form.

I would give him to Munster or Leinster in a swap deal in a heartbeat.

[stickinout]

I can't be the only one who would like to see the back of Payne.
His lack of humility after he destroyed our best chance in Europe. He didn't seem to realise how much his moment of gross stupidity affected his team mates or us as fans.
His ability as an Antipodean to jump ahead of other players without having to display any ounce of form.

I would give him to Munster or Leinster in a swap deal in a heartbeat.

All things being well, i could see Cave and Payne sharing the 13 shirt on a 50;50 basis for this season. Do you not think that's fair enough?

JB time to let last year go. "his lack of humility" comment I don't get. Did you want him to put on a sack cloth and cry down the camera? Most people on here thought he was hard done by, and by what has gone on after the incident in similar situations, i'd say he was. Yella would've been fair.

[Jackie Brown]

I just can't. Lol. The sight of Muller, Ferris, TC, Best leaving the pitch knowing the dream was over. As fans we'd waited years for the opportunity and he fecked it up. His interview after he seemed to think it was all a bit of a laugh.

He deserved red for stupidity alone, but I don't want to get into it again.

[BuckRogers]

I just can't. Lol. The sight of Muller, Ferris, TC, Best leaving the pitch knowing the dream was over. As fans we'd waited years for the opportunity and he fecked it up. His interview after he seemed to think it was all a bit of a laugh.

He deserved red for stupidity alone, but I don't want to get into it again.

I don't blame him for that. He was a very split-millisecond to early, he paid the price for it. I still believe it was harsh but as we are now sadly seeing outcome rather than intent is what these decisions are made on. I don't think anyone on the team blames him either. Unfortunately these things happen, devastating as it was at the time.

PS-Make no mistake Goode and the Sarries medical team made everything they could out of that as well.