Ulster vs Mexicans updates

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Picked up a player beyond the horizontal and threw him into the ground

Dangerous play

Maybe it's my eyes or my memory, but he seemed entirely horizontal to me. That it was potentially dangerous is true, else it wouldn't be a penalty.

[thecrouch]

If Kirchner hadn't been there it would have been a red card.

Kirchner tried to bring him down and slowed his descent enough to allow him to twist himself, otherwise he was being planted face first into the ground.

[BaggyTrousers]

It was marginal on the above horizontal but having lifted him to that extent the throwing of him down was dangerous play. It was a yellow IMO but nothing more and had it been a penalty with a ticking off I wouldn't have been overly exercised.

The Laws do not suggest the use of a set square, protractor & slide rule to determine "above the horizontal", it without question qualified on that count. O'Brien without a shadow of a doubt deserved yellow, nothing borderline about it. Barring the more prudent actions of Sideshow Bob, who took Hendo to ground as carefully as he could given O'Brien's callous disregard, we will never know whether it would have become a question of yellow or red.

O'Brien should be thanking Sideshow Bob and I would not be altogether surprised should SOB have a meeting with the citing commissioners mates, his actions were utterly reprehensible. Gatland-like in fact.

Now that is as clear as it can be put, no argument will be brooked, clownshoes may be awarded.

[cheese]

The SOB tackle was bad but not worth a red card. People are starting to ruin the contact element of the game. The worst thing about it was it was off the ball. Those who played the game at a decent level know this kinda thing happens all the time. Its called being aggressive and it was in safe manner as he wasn't tipped as he was pushed down belly first.

[Tazz #15]

The SOB tackle was bad but not worth a red card. People are starting to ruin the contact element of the game. The worst thing about it was it was off the ball. Those who played the game at a decent level know this kinda thing happens all the time. Its called being aggressive and it was in safe manner as he wasn't tipped as he was pushed down belly first.

Absolute bull, Hendo was taken above the horizontal, no borderline about it, he's either above horizontal or not. He was then driven downwards by SOB, and would have been extremely dangerous if it hadn't been for gurny Zane, as Baggy rightly said.

[stu]

The SOB tackle was bad but not worth a red card.

If McCloskey's clear out at the ruck was worth a red, SOB's input on Friday night certainly was.

Doubt he'll be cited though.

[OneMore]

The SOB tackle was bad but not worth a red card. People are starting to ruin the contact element of the game. The worst thing about it was it was off the ball. Those who played the game at a decent level know this kinda thing happens all the time. Its called being aggressive and it was in safe manner as he wasn't tipped as he was pushed down belly first.

Absolute bull, Hendo was taken above the horizontal, no borderline about it, he's either above horizontal or not. He was then driven downwards by SOB, and would have been extremely dangerous if it hadn't been for gurny Zane, as Baggy rightly said.

But you can't pretend Kirchner wasn't there either. In fact Kirchner's presence would almost certainly be SOB's defence. SOB will argue that Kirchner had it covered and there was no need for him to hold onto him.

If 6 men picked up Henderson and one of them did what SOB did, but the other 5 set him down nice and gently, we wouldn't expect that man to even be binned. If SOB had Hendo in the air on his own I don't believe he would have 'thrown him away' in the manner he did.

I think he probably expected ZK to deal with it, which is obviously a bit daft, yellow card seems fine to me. Particularly given there was no damage done (and like it or not, that seems to legitimately be part of the decision making process).

[ruckover]

On a side note, now that Kirchner's had his locks hacked off, can we still call him Sideshow Bob?

These are the questions that require answers...

[rorybestsbigbaldnoggin]

The SOB tackle was bad but not worth a red card.

If McCloskey's clear out at the ruck was worth a red, SOB's input on Friday night certainly was.

Doubt he'll be cited though.

This is the thing - taken in isolation, I think a yellow was about right for SOB, but then there are decisions like Luke getting a massive citing for accidentally clipping a Scarlets man, or any of other countless incidents, that see the supposed "letter of the law" applied as rigorously as humanly possible.

SOB won't be cited (regardless of should or should not) - it was an interpro, and he's too important.

[Tazz #15]

The SOB tackle was bad but not worth a red card. People are starting to ruin the contact element of the game. The worst thing about it was it was off the ball. Those who played the game at a decent level know this kinda thing happens all the time. Its called being aggressive and it was in safe manner as he wasn't tipped as he was pushed down belly first.

Absolute bull, Hendo was taken above the horizontal, no borderline about it, he's either above horizontal or not. He was then driven downwards by SOB, and would have been extremely dangerous if it hadn't been for gurny Zane, as Baggy rightly said.

But you can't pretend Kirchner wasn't there either. In fact Kirchner's presence would almost certainly be SOB's defence. SOB will argue that Kirchner had it covered and there was no need for him to hold onto him.

If 6 men picked up Henderson and one of them did what SOB did, but the other 5 set him down nice and gently, we wouldn't expect that man to even be binned. If SOB had Hendo in the air on his own I don't believe he would have 'thrown him away' in the manner he did.

I think he probably expected ZK to deal with it, which is obviously a bit daft, yellow card seems fine to me. Particularly given there was no damage done (and like it or not, that seems to legitimately be part of the decision making process).

It's not that SOB just let him go though, he drove him downwards. Watch the motion, he sends Hendo well on his way before releasing him. Gurny Zane being there shouldn't matter a damn when it comes to the actions of SOB. Much worse than Stu's red in Edinburgh, and definitely a much more deliberate action.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a SOB fan, but what he done on Friday was bang out of order, and much more than just an aggressive bit of play. There's a difference in playing on the edge and clearly overstepping the mark, and SOB knows it.

[Snipe Watson]

What SOB did was considerably more dangerous than what McCloskey was banned for. O'Brien was lucky Kirchner was there and lucky it was an interpro. Without Kirchner it would and should have been red and if it was any other fixture, he would be cited.

[Dave]

Was it worse than this?

https://youtu.be/oLgLuOeZwyc

[BuckRogers]

Bit off ifs and buts here. Perhaps if Kirchner was not present it might have been a red but as it played out Kirchner was there and Hendy landed in his back.

Crucially McCloskey and TC both put the players above the horizontal and ultimately on their heads/necks going in back to earth.

I wouldn't have lost sleep had O'Brien been red carded but for what actually happened it would have been very harsh IMO.

If he'd actually drove Hendy into the ground ala Court I would personally have been baying for blood. He didn't ergo I am not.

From a selfish point of view we bate Leinster out the gate with their full compliment minus O'Brien and Bobberts YCs. It was a dismantling of a team that have caused us great pain in terms of results over the years and I bloody enjoyed it. A red would have taken the edge off it a little for me.

[OneMore]

What SOB did was considerably more dangerous than what McCloskey was banned for. O'Brien was lucky Kirchner was there and lucky it was an interpro. Without Kirchner it would and should have been red and if it was any other fixture, he would be cited.

I agree. If SOB had been the only Leinster man involved, picked Henderson up like Hendo was picked up on Friday, and dispatched by the sole Leinster man like SOB dispatched him, SOB would have deserved to have been banned. Similarly if SOB had punched him in the face, SOB would also deserve to be banned. Or if SOB had pulled down Hendo's shorts and kicked him in the Brennan, he'd also deserve to be banned.

The presence of Kirchner shouldn't be ignored.

[Snipe Watson]

Was it worse than this?

https://youtu.be/oLgLuOeZwyc

No, because Toner's head hit the ground first. Tom was unlucky, O'Brien was lucky.