2015-2016 what's to be done?

[BaggyTrousers]

Forget Jules Savea, I want his brother Arnie. He is some player, best 7 I've seen this year.

I think if they had any wit the All Blacks would just seen Hurricanes to the RWC to represent them, they are playing the most marvellous rugby, their offloading is spectacular & they just go for everything.

Sailing away at the top of the league and have 10 bonus points from 15 matches.

Bang on. He has some speed for a 7. Couple of their outside backs are fairly handy too. Be interesting to see if many of them sneak into the AB squad or will the coaches stick with the tried and tested. I imagine the later. Where NZ are going to really struggle is at fly-half.

FFS Agen, you almost complete a post without a ballix & then you do that

Could you point out a team better served at 10 than NZ?

Have to say I watched earlier, & have watched since his return to the 10 shirt recently, one Dan Carter and he is cruising towards the RWC, hardly a poor kicking option either. Beauden Barrett is sensational and despite his recent knee injury could keep Carter on the sidelines, he looks sensational all round, with enormous pace, and everything else a quality 10 needs. Thereafter Colin Slade isn't the worst as a third choice.

Don't know Barrett's stats this season but think he was 75% or so for 2014 in Super rugby. Come the final stages of the RWC, you need someone to kick goals under pressure. All I am saying, it that this is where the ABs are not just as good. They have playmakers at 10 aplenty and Carrett, Carter and Slade can set the place on fire. Carter, is an excellent goalkicker when in form but can he stay fit? History suggests not.

Cheers Agen-le-tete, I am sure I will not be the only poster to note that you failed to name a country better placed than NZ at 10. My point in a nutshell.

[nonplussed]

We simply need a significant piece of cute barsteward.

Something we've missed since the Rev !


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[rorybestsbigbaldnoggin]

OK I guess nobody else is a fan of moving McCloskey to no 8! Yes I know he would seriously be behind others at his age and there is a lot of technique about the position, but there a lot of things about him that playing at 8 would suit him, his off loading game, his ability to knock people back in the tackle, etc. Now that I think about it 6 would be an easier move due to less responsibility at the back of the scrum, and obviously if he had have been moved earlier in his career it would have made it easier, but I still think he could be a big ball carrying forward that we need.

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Maybe you could talk me through your thinking on McCloskey rather than trying 'witty' put downs?

Okay, if that will make you happy , he is a fècking centre, that's were he played that's where he wants to fècking play, it's good enough for Joe Smit and not some chube from lurgan with some kind of schoolboy crush on back row players. Now deal with it and move on.

It might work in Q4 with a bunch of lurgan fatties.

There's a brief, reasoned and persuasive argument as to why McCloskey isn't a number 8, but Kofi doesn't deal in those sorts of contributions . . .

[bazzaj]

8 too technical but 6 would be feasible. Sam Burgess seems to have coped ok at Bath and he wasn't even in the sport a year ago.
The question would be the need to do it and would we not be better served signing a decent back rower?
Jerry Collins was playing in Japan and 2nd division French rugby for the last 4 years till his sad death.
Need I say more?

[BaggyTrousers]

I suppose since it's silly season,it's fair enough to drift into ninsensicak areas such as playing a scrum half at hooker but I repeat the requirements for progress:

1) Discipline
2) Rugby intelligence, I'm no coach but I fail to believe that even with the stupidest of players improvement can be coached & progress identified, players sanctioned for stupid acts.
3) Selection, stop the nonsense of product for the home crowd & taking chances on chubes away.
4) Sensible rotation particularly when the squad is not depleted by injury, with strong bench.
5) Leadership from senior players, not just the skipper, he should be freer to manage refs.
6) Third Quarter Syndrome, has to be sorted by the coaches, have they not noticed?

Whatever way you try to shape it, a little or more improvement on each of these and we would be in the first pot for the SDC & polishing our trophy.

[Lurgan Lad]

Yeah you can see the MO of Kofi in just a few posts, personal attack after personal attack and a couple of vague statements, way to contribute his superior wisdom.
Thanks everyone for your contributions, I don't mind people disagreeing if they can form a coherent argument, Bazzaj's post was very good, forgot about Sam Burgess, such a good comparison.

[Lurgan Lad]

I suppose since it's silly season,it's fair enough to drift into ninsensicak areas such as playing a scrum half at hooker but I repeat the requirements for progress:

1) Discipline
2) Rugby intelligence, I'm no coach but I fail to believe that even with the stupidest of players improvement can be coached & progress identified, players sanctioned for stupid acts.
3) Selection, stop the nonsense of product for the home crowd & taking chances on chubes away.
4) Sensible rotation particularly when the squad is not depleted by injury, with strong bench.
5) Leadership from senior players, not just the skipper, he should be freer to manage refs.
6) Third Quarter Syndrome, has to be sorted by the coaches, have they not noticed?

Whatever way you try to shape it, a little or more improvement on each of these and we would be in the first pot for the SDC & polishing our trophy.

Was a bit worried we were going slightly off topic, sorry OP, well done Baggy. Definitely nothing there to argue against.

[Kofi Annan]

I suppose since it's silly season,it's fair enough to drift into ninsensicak areas such as playing a scrum half at hooker but I repeat the requirements for progress:

1) Discipline
Question has to be asked, Why? Why has it went to shît, surely Kiss has a mobile phone to speak to Doak on about it.
2) Rugby intelligence, I'm no coach but I fail to believe that even with the stupidest of players improvement can be coached & progress identified, players sanctioned for stupid acts.
That's the bases of good coaching , we have players who have gone backwards.
3) Selection, stop the nonsense of product for the home crowd & taking chances on chubes away.
We had Paul Pritchard, and Stephen Mulholland picked at back row for Irish international clubs team, have to be better than cornerflags cash cows, we should have faith in what's here.
4) Sensible rotation particularly when the squad is not depleted by injury, with strong bench.
That decision takes a big set of gonads, look at The selection of say Nelson etc gets a shot, has a fair game, then BOOM, gone, having done nothing wrong, how does that build confidence, development and loyalty.
5) Leadership from senior players, not just the skipper, he should be freer to manage refs.
At that level, all should have leadership qualities, that what makes the difference from being a club player or a professional
6) Third Quarter Syndrome, has to be sorted by the coaches, have they not noticed?
See reply 1
Whatever way you try to shape it, a little or more improvement on each of these and we would be in the first pot for the SDC & polishing our trophy.

If the above were improved by even 10 % per player , as a team we would be hell of a lot better,

Anyway back to what I was going to ask, anyone think Ethel would make a good hooker, she has the looks, can throw a straight bourbon cream and has a real tight bind on her . May sound daft , both worth a punt.

[Kofi Annan]

Yeah you can see the MO of Kofi in just a few posts, personal attack after personal attack and a couple of vague statements, way to contribute his superior wisdom.
Thanks everyone for your contributions, I don't mind people disagreeing if they can form a coherent argument, Bazzaj's post was very good, forgot about Sam Burgess, such a good comparison.

Well if your gonna talk absolute mad cats shît . ruin a potential international centre to fulfil a fantasy. Yeah I can see my MO , it's called wisethefeckup .

[BaggyTrousers]

3) Selection, stop the nonsense of product for the home crowd & taking chances on chubes away.
We had Paul Pritchard, and Stephen Mulholland picked at back row for Irish international clubs team, have to be better than cornerflags cash cows, we should have faith in what's here.

A bit broader than I had intended but absolutely, I see no reason whatsoever why we bring in no-hopers from the Brennan-end of NZ, sure we've loads of them on the doorstep.

My real point as I'm sure you know is that we are continually playing our strongest available at home & playing silly buggers away throwing in ludicrous quantities of lesser lights away at perceived weak opposition. We scraped through in Treviso, lost at Zebre with a scandalous selection & got dumped by the Dragons & lucky to get a LPB - at least there we had some excuse in terms of injuries, the Zebre fiasco cost us dearly, even a bench with quality could well have saved that match, 14 men & all. If ever 14 were to beat 15, that was it.

4) Sensible rotation particularly when the squad is not depleted by injury, with strong bench.
That decision takes a big set of gonads, look at The selection of say Nelson etc gets a shot, has a fair game, then BOOM, gone, having done nothing wrong, how does that build confidence, development and loyalty.

Fairy nuff, but all that needs is decent management, not the sort that tells gingers to "fu@k off back to the Ravens".

I can't imagine that your example of Nelson, doesn't know that as a winger he would be behind at least 3 players. If he then knows because management will have told the squad what the plans are for rotation, that he will be guaranteed to get 3 or 4 games in a strong team, surely he has the wit to understand that he will have improved his chances of being under less pressure to perform as and when international calls and injuries lead to him being selected on merit as the best available because he has done it with the big boys, rather than an occasional outing with the break glass boys?

Have to say I would be keen to see Ethel get her shot at the big time. All season she has done her job as consistently as any player, coach, committeeman, PR chube or CEO, only Franco can hold a candle to her for consistency. Mind you I hear Ethel is fond of those fire hazard nighties, Franco may be careful with his bloody candle.

[Fly Half]

Why do people think Ulster have too many Centres? It was Ulster that converted Marshall and Olding from 10s to play centre. Suddenly Ulster have supposedly too many centres and only one 10! Need I also remind those that a certain Mr. Payne is being converted to centre from full back when Ulster don't have a a high class 15 to replace him yet (apologies Lulu but yer not test class).

Might I respectfully suggest to Ulster Rugby that they stop converting talented backs to centre from positions where they need talented players.

McCloskey has the potential to be an exceptional Test centre, why on earth would anyone consider changing him to a forward? Ulster need to put the best player in his most effective position for the team.

BTW I'd like to see Henderson play 8 for Ulster (as he did at underage level). That would maximise his chance to be a carrier off the base as he has explosive power and good offloading skills.

[Russ]

Luke Marshall to 6

Whist

[Nightsoil]

You would consider moving McCloskey to back row because we have lots of centres and not many back rows, and he's a big physical bruising brute.

You would probably stop considering the move when you consider how big he is in terms of back rows, because the answer is not very. He is smaller than all of our contracted back rows who've actually made a professional career out of it. He's basically as big as Clive Ross. There's guys in the academy bigger than him. I appreciate size is a crude barometer, but alarm bells should be ringing at this stage.

McCloskey is a potential international centre because he's got most of the basic tools needed and in addition is a good deal stronger and bigger than most of the other centres he faces - although, tbh, I have my doubts about how far and well he'll go when being over 100kg and a centre is no longer unusual for the standard. As a back row, he'd have to spend more time in the tight where he'd be less effective, and less time in the loose where he's very effective, and would have to do a lot of work on his breakdown technique to boot. Whether he'd end up much better than Clive Ross is an open question - and that's why most people will think it's a daft idea.

[Russ]

You would consider moving McCloskey to back row because we have lots of centres and not many back rows, and he's a big physical bruising brute.

You would probably stop considering the move when you consider how big he is in terms of back rows, because the answer is not very. He is smaller than all of our contracted back rows who've actually made a professional career out of it. He's basically as big as Clive Ross. There's guys in the academy bigger than him. I appreciate size is a crude barometer, but alarm bells should be ringing at this stage.

McCloskey is a potential international centre because he's got most of the basic tools needed and in addition is a good deal stronger and bigger than most of the other centres he faces - although, tbh, I have my doubts about how far and well he'll go when being over 100kg and a centre is no longer unusual for the standard. As a back row, he'd have to spend more time in the tight where he'd be less effective, and less time in the loose where he's very effective, and would have to do a lot of work on his breakdown technique to boot. Whether he'd end up much better than Clive Ross is an open question - and that's why most people will think it's a daft idea.

McCloskey is a better backrow than Cross

[BaggyTrousers]

I have to confess to being greatly amused by everyone who talks of McCloskey as a future international centre. It may or may not happen but he is little more than a decent player at this stage.