Ruan - Crapola Vu all over again

[BaggyTrousers]

And from Gavin Cummiskey in the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/u ... -1.2777209

I've yet to see a single article in defence of Nucifora & the FIRFU.

[Wee Woman]

Has anyone ever seen Ruan Pienaar ever indulge in "badge slapping" before?

Me neither, I think it means something to him.................. I almost blubbed.

Pienaar's never really been a heart on his sleeve kind of guy so to have witnessed that last night, along with the post match interview was very emotional.

They're going to have to replace the free flegs with tissues at this rate .

[Loki]

the man is pure class and the value he adds to every aspect of Ulster has been criminally overlooked in this process.

It's hoping against hope but I'd like to think Ulster are in the ear of the IRFU every day of the week throughout the season, working back channels, whatever. There's been no hard and fast rule on NIQs applied whatsoever so it's certainly worth embarrassing them publicly whilst being a nuisance privately.

[Russ]

Is nucidickface on holiday again?

[milltownham]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/keep-ruan-at-ulster

Worth a try?

[twiglet]

If the IRFU don't pay have they got a say?

We have in excess of 10,000 season ticket holders. If each season ticket holder gives only £30, that's £300,000 which would reward Ruan for staying.

[Nightsoil]

If the IRFU don't pay have they got a say?

We have in excess of 10,000 season ticket holders. If each season ticket holder gives only £30, that's £300,000 which would reward Ruan for staying.

Yes.

[Joe Schmo]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/keep-ruan-at-ulster

Worth a try?

no, Aussies are obstinate barstewards, no way will nucifeckface want to lose face, he's clearly a nasty dictator. Ruan will be gone for a few years, hopefully he'll forgive us and come back in a coaching capacity. I thought Muller was a legend, I'm not sure legend is a good enough status for Ruan.

[HairyJ]

I'm not even entirely sure that the argument regarding local talent getting gametime is benefiting the country is valid. I'm not as knowledgable on the game as most (if not all) of you guys so maybe someone can provide a counter-argument, but here is my two cents based on soccer, and I think (maybe?)the principle is the same:

Take English football. The British mass media, in all of their clear and present wisdom (lolz) like to push the agenda that England, as a national team, are crap because there are too many foreigners in the PL getting in the way of the development of he young English players. I put it to them that, to the contrary, the foreigners are helping; Englands best/most influential players in the past few years have been Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard, Beckham, Terry, Ferdinand, Scholes, Rooney, Neville, Owen, Hart, Ashley Cole, Kane, Sterling et al. Did these players (who are/were almost indisputably top drawer) become so good by playing crap football alongside 10 crap compatriots, or did they learn their trade by playing alongside the best of the best from abroad for big clubs?

Foreigners are/were not England's problem, crap managers and coaches are/were.

Are the IRFU making the same fundamental error? Are they assuming that the national team will benefit from a selection pool of loads of regular provincial starters, rather than the creme de la creme of natives playing alongside top drawer foreigners (i.e. a smaller pool of starters but with a higher base level of quality)?

I think they are, but would love some of you more knowledgeable rugby folks to provide a counter argument from the IRFU point of view.

[againstthehead]

We need an independent ulster! Abandon the IRFU and Rory can bankroll us to global domination of the game!

We're all obviously pretty biased and it's hard to be objective. Ultimately, I can see Irish provincial rugby deteriorating over the next few years. The big English and French sides are mopping up SH players and we're fighting over being allowed to keep someone who actually wants to stay or being able to bring in a NIQ when another NIQ is crocked. FFS. IMHO we need the irish provinces to be competitive in Europe so the young guys get to experience knock-out european rugby. That is next best thing to test-match rugby. If the like of POM and Henderson don't get that level of rugby for their provinces then who could blame them for moving across the water for more money and the opportunity for success.

With the injury rates in professional rugby the provinces must use over 40 players a season? - plenty of opportunity for young players to make an impact if they are good enough. A big issue is when you have a heap of very good players in a similar position. eg Leinster have had a tonne of quality backrowers and Ulster have plenty of IQ centres. The focus should be ensuring those guys are getting gametime and not that Ruan is stopping beagle from world domination.

Furthermore, where are the next generation of players coming from? Look at the systems that bring players into Ulster Rugby. The Mitre 10 provincial league that sits below Super Rugby in NZ is a hotbed for talent coming through. Maybe the club system in Ireland needs a complete overhaul - make it more regional so the talent isn't spread so thin and the quality and professionalism goes up a gear. The week prior to NZ playing Australia in the rugby championship, a full-strength ABs side played 2 small provincial sides (Counties and northland) for 40 mins each of full-on rugby in a small town south of Auckland. That's how to make contact with grass-roots and how to get young kids enthused by the game and enthused in their local club. The local kids were going nuts when Counties led the ABs for 20 mins!

[Nightsoil]

I am very sure that the argument of gametime for IQ talent benefiting the national team (in this case) is a bad one and that in fact, insofar as Ireland feels anything from this, it will suffer.

[Cockatrice]

If the IRFU don't pay have they got a say?

We have in excess of 10,000 season ticket holders. If each season ticket holder gives only £30, that's £300,000 which would reward Ruan for staying.

its not about the money...

[Rooster]

I'm not even entirely sure that the argument regarding local talent getting gametime is benefiting the country is valid. I'm not as knowledgable on the game as most (if not all) of you guys so maybe someone can provide a counter-argument, but here is my two cents based on soccer, and I think (maybe?)the principle is the same:

Take English football. The British mass media, in all of their clear and present wisdom (lolz) like to push the agenda that England, as a national team, are crap because there are too many foreigners in the PL getting in the way of the development of he young English players. I put it to them that, to the contrary, the foreigners are helping; Englands best/most influential players in the past few years have been Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard, Beckham, Terry, Ferdinand, Scholes, Rooney, Neville, Owen, Hart, Ashley Cole, Kane, Sterling et al. Did these players (who are/were almost indisputably top drawer) become so good by playing crap football alongside 10 crap compatriots, or did they learn their trade by playing alongside the best of the best from abroad for big clubs?

Foreigners are/were not England's problem, crap managers and coaches are/were.

Are the IRFU making the same fundamental error? Are they assuming that the national team will benefit from a selection pool of loads of regular provincial starters, rather than the creme de la creme of natives playing alongside top drawer foreigners (i.e. a smaller pool of starters but with a higher base level of quality)?

I think they are, but would love some of you more knowledgeable rugby folks to provide a counter argument from the IRFU point of view.

I think you are right Hairy
In this case we have most of the best young backs in the Irish system and another couple of 10's in the younger players who are still age grade now if we don't have a decent pack or 9 then these kids are wasted as they will never fulfil their potential due to a team not functioning well.
Some might wonder at Charlie boy at 15 taking up a fullback spot but at the same time his knowledge and skills are what will drive the likes of Lyttle , Nelson etc to emulate him and try and be as good as Charlie, that's how it works and that's how it should continue to work, it will not take much to drop the quality of the entire side if a few key positions don't have top class imports to push on the locals.

[Snipe Watson]

We need an independent ulster! Abandon the IRFU and Rory can bankroll us to global domination of the game!

We're all obviously pretty biased and it's hard to be objective. Ultimately, I can see Irish provincial rugby deteriorating over the next few years. The big English and French sides are mopping up SH players and we're fighting over being allowed to keep someone who actually wants to stay or being able to bring in a NIQ when another NIQ is crocked. FFS. IMHO we need the irish provinces to be competitive in Europe so the young guys get to experience knock-out european rugby. That is next best thing to test-match rugby. If the like of POM and Henderson don't get that level of rugby for their provinces then who could blame them for moving across the water for more money and the opportunity for success.

With the injury rates in professional rugby the provinces must use over 40 players a season? - plenty of opportunity for young players to make an impact if they are good enough. A big issue is when you have a heap of very good players in a similar position. eg Leinster have had a tonne of quality backrowers and Ulster have plenty of IQ centres. The focus should be ensuring those guys are getting gametime and not that Ruan is stopping beagle from world domination.

Furthermore, where are the next generation of players coming from? Look at the systems that bring players into Ulster Rugby. The Mitre 10 provincial league that sits below Super Rugby in NZ is a hotbed for talent coming through. Maybe the club system in Ireland needs a complete overhaul - make it more regional so the talent isn't spread so thin and the quality and professionalism goes up a gear. The week prior to NZ playing Australia in the rugby championship, a full-strength ABs side played 2 small provincial sides (Counties and northland) for 40 mins each in a small town south of Auckland. That's how to make contact with grass-roots and how to get young kids enthused by the game and enthused in their local club. The local kids were going nuts when Counties led the ABs for 20 mins!

You cannot compare Ireland with NZ, The whole sporting culture of NZ is geared towards Rugby and Rugby has first call on all the best athletic talent. We don't have the culture, the coaches, the systems so we need a unique Irish plan that is not predicated on a "do rightly" mindset. It needs to be a bit more streetwise and flexible. The IRFU have brought is Nucifora a single minded automaton, who seems to enjoy being hated, to do their bidding.
To have a world class operator, who is fully engaged and bought in and to send him packing is an act of mind-numbing stupidity. Even by the IRFU's normally high standard of blinkered conservatism this one is exceptional.

[Rooster]

If the IRFU don't pay have they got a say?

We have in excess of 10,000 season ticket holders. If each season ticket holder gives only £30, that's £300,000 which would reward Ruan for staying.

its not about the money...

It really is daft though, if you decided to pay Ruans wages next season the IRFU wouldn't even accept the offer of the cash to let him play.