Bad News Day for the DUPers.

[Rooster]

I can't decide whether this is a mixture of incompetence and scam or just pure scam. What makes me veer towards scam is that both politicians and civil servants seemed to be relaxed about abuse of the scheme when they thought HM Treasury was picking up the bill. Panic only set in when Treasury informed Stormont they were picking up the bill. I think this part of the DUP/Sinn Fein policy of bleeding as much money to whatever cause from UK government to NI as seen in benefits debacle.

Benefits debacle? Hilarious stuff coming from a Tory.

Yes the benefits debacle is really bad, something seriously wrong when a family can pull over £50k a year in benefits and there is actually no one in the family needing even part time health care.

The Tories made the severest cuts to the most disabled. To the point that Ian Duncan-Smith grew a conscience.

Out of interest what are their conditions? What benefits are they claiming?

You name it they claim it, in some families it is a lifestyle, the same people will then say the foreigners have taken all our jobs when in effect it boils down to the fact they can fiddle more than they could earn.
The number here on over £30k per annum is diabolical and indirectly that will hit some of the most disabled in ways but I don't reckon too many genuine cases are as badly treated as some are trying to make out, we hear of cases but there is usually another side to the story that is hidden.

[BaggyTrousers]

Dear Rooster,
Have you any evidence for that UltRight diatribe? I will say I don't doubt we may well be world leaders in swinging the lead, but frankly I'd be amazed to see how any family of less than 15 souls could pull in fifty big ones a year.

I reckon I'd be stretched to feed clothe and house 15 on a mere 50K, though we seem to have no issue dropping £5M of armaments on largely unpopulated wasteland in Syria/Iraq in 10 minutes.

You on the cooking sherry again ould hand?

Yours sincerely
BT

Chairman and General Secretary of the NI Loony Left Commune.

[Cockatrice]

Baggy....

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 80687.html

[Dave]

I can't decide whether this is a mixture of incompetence and scam or just pure scam. What makes me veer towards scam is that both politicians and civil servants seemed to be relaxed about abuse of the scheme when they thought HM Treasury was picking up the bill. Panic only set in when Treasury informed Stormont they were picking up the bill. I think this part of the DUP/Sinn Fein policy of bleeding as much money to whatever cause from UK government to NI as seen in benefits debacle.

Benefits debacle? Hilarious stuff coming from a Tory.

Yes the benefits debacle is really bad, something seriously wrong when a family can pull over £50k a year in benefits and there is actually no one in the family needing even part time health care.

The Tories made the severest cuts to the most disabled. To the point that Ian Duncan-Smith grew a conscience.

Out of interest what are their conditions? What benefits are they claiming?

You name it they claim it, in some families it is a lifestyle, the same people will then say the foreigners have taken all our jobs when in effect it boils down to the fact they can fiddle more than they could earn.
The number here on over £30k per annum is diabolical and indirectly that will hit some of the most disabled in ways but I don't reckon too many genuine cases are as badly treated as some are trying to make out, we hear of cases but there is usually another side to the story that is hidden.

There are several different strands to this issue. One being benefit fraud which we are all against obviously. The second is the cuts made to those who need it the most. I think you are talking about the former, my beef is with the latter.

[Brian Dunn 382]

I may be a Tory but I was also a GP for 36 years and observed the abuse of the DLA benefit. It was intended to allow those with disabilities to live as independently as possible. Instead it spawned an industry of people looking for a set of symptoms that would allow them to get benefits and a host of do gooders , MLAs and community activists who knew how to play the system. Those with genuine disabilities who were truthful were frequently unsuccessful in their application. The level of DLA claims in NI shows what a dysfunctional society we have become. Does anyone seriously believe 20% of people in West Belfast have a serious disability? I support targeting benefit to genuine claimants. It's easy for protesters to set a few people in wheelchairs in front of their demos. What about all the motability cars for people who can walk as far as I can?

However that is a side issue at present. Have any of you read the Audit office report on RHI?

[Dave]

I may be a Tory but I was also a GP for 36 years and observed the abuse of the DLA benefit. It was intended to allow those with disabilities to live as independently as possible. Instead it spawned an industry of people looking for a set of symptoms that would allow them to get benefits and a host of do gooders , MLAs and community activists who knew how to play the system. Those with genuine disabilities who were truthful were frequently unsuccessful in their application. The level of DLA claims in NI shows what a dysfunctional society we have become. Does anyone seriously believe 20% of people in West Belfast have a serious disability? I support targeting benefit to genuine claimants. It's easy for protesters to set a few people in wheelchairs in front of their demos. What about all the motability cars for people who can walk as far as I can?

However that is a side issue at present. Have any of you read the Audit office report on RHI?

DLA was too easy to fraud. Now replaced by PIP, which I find very harsh in certain ways. Being a Tory I'm sure you are loving the cuts though, impacting the most severely disabled the most severely. Nice.

[Cockatrice]

Unfortunately I have read the Audit Office Report... The whole thing is a feck but as with Gloria she will survive.

[BaggyTrousers]

I may be a Tory but I was also a GP for 36 years and observed the abuse of the DLA benefit. It was intended to allow those with disabilities to live as independently as possible. Instead it spawned an industry of people looking for a set of symptoms that would allow them to get benefits and a host of do gooders , MLAs and community activists who knew how to play the system. Those with genuine disabilities who were truthful were frequently unsuccessful in their application. The level of DLA claims in NI shows what a dysfunctional society we have become. Does anyone seriously believe 20% of people in West Belfast have a serious disability? I support targeting benefit to genuine claimants. It's easy for protesters to set a few people in wheelchairs in front of their demos. What about all the motability cars for people who can walk as far as I can?

However that is a side issue at present. Have any of you read the Audit office report on RHI?

So as a GP who observed abuse of DLA, would you mind answering a question or two? You'll have to forgive me, I've never claimed benefit so I'm ignorant of the formalities.

1) does a benefit fraudster on medical grounds not require a complicit GP to get the benefit in the first place? If so were you complicit or how did you observe the fraud ? Were other GPS in your practice complicit and if so why did you not report them?

2) if you were complicit, how do you have the gall to bitch about it now? If not, then fire away, you've as much right as the next man, gay or not, to have a gurn.

Thank you in anticipation of an honest response.

[BaggyTrousers]

Baggy....

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 80687.html

Thanks Cockers, You haven't commented but I assume you've seen the myriad of flaws in the journalism that a child could drive a coach and four through?

The idiot wants us to hate the poor, the working poor and the disabled, the greedy selfish bar steward.

Outrageous that a family of 7, 3 or 4 of whom are disabled, the lazy sponging bar steward are getting more than double the average working man's income. Shoot them I say.

No wait, uncock that weapon soldier, maybe life isn't just that cushy when you are a disabled adult living with another disabled adult and some disabled kids.

Personally I'd say that is a totally extraordinary benefits total relating to a serious extraordinary set of personal circumstances, I wouldn't like to change places with them.

Now doubtless some utter fool will suggest sterilising such people, how dare they breed the crippled basetards. Come on I know some of you must want to say it, maybe not quite in those terms.

It's just as Dave told the doctor, his Tory friends want to convince us people are living the life of Reilly on extravagant benefits. Like Dave I hate the lad who claims DLA because he can't work yet has two jobs and plays football on a Saturday.

Shyte journalism fails to elaborate on just what straitened circumstances you have to be in to get those sums. I'd happily see fraudsters being prosecuted just as I'd love to see tax dodgers, many of whom I assume contribute here, prosecuted, however I am more than happy to see people in genuine need awarded benefits suited to their circumstances.

Such articles would have you believe the average claimant would be better off sitting on his/her hole than working. That may well be accurate in certain circumstances, but toryboys mates boast if all the jobs they've created. What they don't tell you is that the vast majority of these jobs require the state to top up the pay with working benefits, conveniently getting the taxpayer to part fund low paid no security jobs to the benefit of some of our biggest companies, who oddly back the Tories.

I'm through with this guy.

[HairyJ]

Baggy....

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 80687.html

Thanks Cockers, You haven't commented but I assume you've seen the myriad of flaws in the journalism that a child could drive a coach and four through?

The idiot wants us to hate the poor, the working poor and the disabled, the greedy selfish bar steward.

Outrageous that a family of 7, 3 or 4 of whom are disabled, the lazy sponging bar steward are getting more than double the average working man's income. Shoot them I say.

No wait, uncock that weapon soldier, maybe life isn't just that cushy when you are a disabled adult living with another disabled adult and some disabled kids.

Personally I'd say that is a totally extraordinary benefits total relating to a serious extraordinary set of personal circumstances, I wouldn't like to change places with them.

Now doubtless some utter fool will suggest sterilising such people, how dare they breed the crippled basetards. Come on I know some of you must want to say it, maybe not quite in those terms.

It's just as Dave told the doctor, his Tory friends want to convince us people are living the life of Reilly on extravagant benefits. Like Dave I hate the lad who claims DLA because he can't work yet has two jobs and plays football on a Saturday.

Shyte journalism fails to elaborate on just what straitened circumstances you have to be in to get those sums. I'd happily see fraudsters being prosecuted just as I'd love to see tax dodgers, many of whom I assume contribute here, prosecuted, however I am more than happy to see people in genuine need awarded benefits suited to their circumstances.

Such articles would have you believe the average claimant would be better off sitting on his/her hole than working. That may well be accurate in certain circumstances, but toryboys mates boast if all the jobs they've created. What they don't tell you is that the vast majority of these jobs require the state to top up the pay with working benefits, conveniently getting the taxpayer to part fund low paid no security jobs to the benefit of some of our biggest companies, who oddly back the Tories.

I'm through with this guy.

*doffs cap*

Great post, Baggster.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[BaggyTrousers]

Unfortunately I have read the Audit Office Report... The whole thing is a feck but as with Gloria she will survive.

In a fascinating New Year discussion with a friend yesterday the RHI and IRS key fan, Mrs Arlene Fascist, came up. My friend thinks she cannot survive the simple fact that she commended support for the scheme amongst the banks, knowing it to be essentially free money.

I suggested he was forgetting a key fact, to wit, we are talking about Norn Iron here where voters are at least as dumb as Seppos, where all DUP/IRA need to get back into power in record numbers are two phrases:

1) spoken by Mrs Fascist, "if you don't want Fartin M'Guinness as First Minister, vote DUP
2) spoken by F M'Guinness "We hope to be the largest party"

Double whammy, tribal voting and DUP/IRA can use this til the cows come home and the proles will eat it up like Toblerone (old style).

Anyway, he has lost a degree of certainty that the evil money wasting Fascist, Mrs Arlene Fascist will not survive. Doubtless that would disappoint many many homophobes and people who believe a largely male legislature should tell a woman how to make decisions on her bodily matters, probably many others too.

[Brian Dunn 382]

Sorry for the delay in replying Baggy but I've been walking in the Antrim hills today. I never told a lie in filling in DLA forms. I frequently wrote "not assessed" when asked if a patient could use pots and pans, peel potatoes, walk up and down stairs etc. because as a GP I did not do this and can't understand where I would ever be in possession of such knowledge. The designer of the form thought they were being very cunning in designing a form that gave a functional assessment without requiring the claimant to be assessed. Our practice was always honest and some people left our practice because their DLA claim failed. We were hassled by MLAs, Citizens Advice and others to give "stronger evidence " but we told what we knew and what we could stand over. Appeals were attended by politicians and community workers. DLA is regarded by most GPS as an irritant that has little to do with them and takes up inordinate amounts of time that would be better spent on dealing with acutely ill patients.

As far as Dave's comments go - It is easy to cite the severely disabled. I have fought to improve the lot of my severely disabled patients over 30 years - annoying lots of bureaucrats. I haven't sat on the sidelines on websites. I've seen the reality and I have seen families where no one works, no one has ever worked and they are experts at scamming (and I mean scamming) benefits. If you in your mistaken compassion for these people think keeping them in that position is correct, I am not going to convince you. Getting those people off benefits and into a job is correct. Dave is doing what I have said protestors do. Concentrate on the severely disabled to prove the scammers need their benefit. Does Dave really believe 1 in 5 people in West Belfast have a serious disability?

I will happily discuss this but I take exception to people questioning my honesty or my commitment over 36 years to disabled or disadvantaged people in my practice.

[Rooster]

Sorry for the delay in replying Baggy but I've been walking in the Antrim hills today. I never told a lie in filling in DLA forms. I frequently wrote "not assessed" when asked if a patient could use pots and pans, peel potatoes, walk up and down stairs etc. because as a GP I did not do this and can't understand where I would ever be in possession of such knowledge. The designer of the form thought they were being very cunning in designing a form that gave a functional assessment without requiring the claimant to be assessed. Our practice was always honest and some people left our practice because their DLA claim failed. We were hassled by MLAs, Citizens Advice and others to give "stronger evidence " but we told what we knew and what we could stand over. Appeals were attended by politicians and community workers. DLA is regarded by most GPS as an irritant that has little to do with them and takes up inordinate amounts of time that would be better spent on dealing with acutely ill patients.

As far as Dave's comments go - It is easy to cite the severely disabled. I have fought to improve the lot of my severely disabled patients over 30 years - annoying lots of bureaucrats. I haven't sat on the sidelines on websites. I've seen the reality and I have seen families where no one works, no one has ever worked and they are experts at scamming (and I mean scamming) benefits. If you in your mistaken compassion for these people think keeping them in that position is correct, I am not going to convince you. Getting those people off benefits and into a job is correct. Dave is doing what I have said protestors do. Concentrate on the severely disabled to prove the scammers need their benefit. Does Dave really believe 1 in 5 people in West Belfast have a serious disability?

I will happily discuss this but I take exception to people questioning my honesty or my commitment over 36 years to disabled or disadvantaged people in my practice.

That totally backs up what I have heard and from some scammers I know who can't work but can manage to go fishing and shooting despite having the old bad back syndrome

[WeeWorld]

...knowing it to be essentially free money.

Yes but society is replete with examples of that
For example, lots of pensions are like that however much the beneficiaries like to pretend otherwise.
I mean, if you retire today at 65 or younger with any kind of defined benefit pension, there's no way you've funded your retirement. Wouldn't you agree?

[Rooster]

...knowing it to be essentially free money.

Yes but society is replete with examples of that
For example, lots of pensions are like that however much the beneficiaries like to pretend otherwise.
I mean, if you retire today at 65 or younger with any kind of defined benefit pension, there's no way you've funded your retirement. Wouldn't you agree?

Free money in this case was extra cash coming in from Westminster outside the NI block grant and budget, just finance department fecked up and forgot to put their claim in and then when it went in late it was scrutinised and the excrement hit the fan and now Westminster says take it out of your block grant as you fecked up.
Simply Arlenes Finance department made a total balls from start to finish which is either incompetence, stupidity, fraud or a combination of all.