KISS OUT

[scrum5]

Sorry to disagree but I remember standing behind the dug outs in the Davy Humps era and listening to Doak shouting to Trimble and Gilroy just kick the ball, I won't miss him, I see he wants to come back to Ulster sometime in the future, great go away and win something with a Championship, AP, French D1 or Top14 team first, if not no thanks.

[Rooster]

Sorry to disagree but I remember standing behind the dug outs in the Davy Humps era and listening to Doak shouting to Trimble and Gilroy just kick the ball, I won't miss him, I see he wants to come back to Ulster sometime in the future, great go away and win something with a Championship, AP, French D1 or Top14 team first, if not no thanks.

At least he was allowed to shout at them in those days.

[Hapax Legomenon]

Sorry to disagree but I remember standing behind the dug outs in the Davy Humps era and listening to Doak shouting to Trimble and Gilroy just kick the ball, I won't miss him, I see he wants to come back to Ulster sometime in the future, great go away and win something with a Championship, AP, French D1 or Top14 team first, if not no thanks.

It's not that long ago when this place was rife with calls for "Dumb and Dumber" to be shown the door and much rejoicing when it was revealed that they were departing.
Is the received wisdom now that they were wrongly blamed and we really should be keeping them and kicking Kiss to the kerb?
If the answer is yes, I call bullshit and ask what singular moment caused this seismic change?
If it's no, the whole job lot of them have presided over the shambles and should go, I can live with that.

[Russ]

Sorry to disagree but I remember standing behind the dug outs in the Davy Humps era and listening to Doak shouting to Trimble and Gilroy just kick the ball, I won't miss him, I see he wants to come back to Ulster sometime in the future, great go away and win something with a Championship, AP, French D1 or Top14 team first, if not no thanks.

It's not that long ago when this place was rife with calls for "Dumb and Dumber" to be shown the door and much rejoicing when it was revealed that they were departing.
Is the received wisdom now that they were wrongly blamed and we really should be keeping them and kicking Kiss to the kerb?
If the answer is yes, I call bullshit and ask what singular moment caused this seismic change?
If it's no, the whole job lot of them have presided over the shambles and should go, I can live with that.

They're still twunts to me

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[Dave]

There's no change, still shyte. Just a realisation that Les also is shyte.

[Jackie Brown]

Les is no better

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[Cap'n Grumpy]

When Gibbes was appointed he made it pretty clear that working with Kiss was one of the main reasons he took the job. Now i have no idea whether getting rid of Kiss at this stage would have any impact on Gibbes' thinking, but I think if UR were planning on doing anything behind the scenes regarding Les before next season, then they would need to be pretty transparent with Gibbes, regardless of what the contractual position may be with him.

I suspect that Gibbes won't be the first to find out that working under Kiss is not the same as working with Kiss.

[Hapax Legomenon]

When Gibbes was appointed he made it pretty clear that working with Kiss was one of the main reasons he took the job. Now i have no idea whether getting rid of Kiss at this stage would have any impact on Gibbes' thinking, but I think if UR were planning on doing anything behind the scenes regarding Les before next season, then they would need to be pretty transparent with Gibbes, regardless of what the contractual position may be with him.

I suspect that Gibbes won't be the first to find out that working under Kiss is not the same as working with Kiss.

Why even discuss the possibility of Kiss being dumped as there is zero chance that it will happen?

[Cockatrice]

Sorry to disagree but I remember standing behind the dug outs in the Davy Humps era and listening to Doak shouting to Trimble and Gilroy just kick the ball, I won't miss him, I see he wants to come back to Ulster sometime in the future, great go away and win something with a Championship, AP, French D1 or Top14 team first, if not no thanks.

It's not that long ago when this place was rife with calls for "Dumb and Dumber" to be shown the door and much rejoicing when it was revealed that they were departing.
Is the received wisdom now that they were wrongly blamed and we really should be keeping them and kicking Kiss to the kerb?
If the answer is yes, I call bullshit and ask what singular moment caused this seismic change?
If it's no, the whole job lot of them have presided over the shambles and should go, I can live with that.

The whole job lot and like I queried elsewhere It appears that Kiss was happy with dumb and dumber and choose to keep them... As such they should all go and we should start again.

[exile-fer-now]

Gary -"I understand those instructions came from on high. I call it "Schmidtball".[/quote]

Agreed 100% - Doak was forced to implement the instructions of the "well-respected" new DoR who drove the tactics in the background whilst taking his IRFU money.

When Doak then spoke his mind, Kiss used divide and rule with him and Clarke ...... and then they were both made scapegoats.

Doak may not have been ready as Head Coach but neither was Cullen - compare and contrast ???????

We all know the IRFU agenda but where was Logan/Puppet in all this ? I don't know about Bryn - maybe I've rose-coloured specs on because he's an ex-player and less of a "suit" but I want to hear from him ?

If the Doak experiment failed - was it because of their selection of the wrong man ? Or was it due to their lack of support/management of that man ?

Who is accountable for this or is it just accepted that it was Kiss' ultimatum/politicking ?

I am disappointed that Doak hasn't taken the risk to go to France or Southern Hemisphere or held out for another Pro12/premiership job........ but I'm even more disappointed that we've binned the "Ulster way", that we've a coaching team more Ramsey Street than Ravenhill.

I cannot believe that Kiss is still our "DoR" after this shambles. As professionals, the players need to stand up and play for the shirt/team/supporters but they have every right to be disgusted by the behaviour of this man. How can they trust the coaching and leadership of someone who has no integrity, is self-serving and will scapegoat anyone who disagrees or blame anyone who can be used for his own ends?

The insults against Clarke and Doak over the last few years are disgraceful - those of you who still perpetrate this have been conned by Bouncer/IRFU.

Baggy - I salute you - we may not agree about some things but you have realised the sham in front of us all and have had the balls to say it how it is.

You others may slag off anyone who is proud of the history and the shirt, you may prefer the insults and mockery, you may posture over season tix .... and oh yeah ..... why don't you call anyone that disagrees with you "Allen" or "Doak" ?

I will be standing up for 2 Ulstermen when they finish on Saturday every bit as much as I will be standing up for the legend (Ruan) - all 3 have given their all and leave as proud Ulstermen.

SUFTUM is not just a song, it's our Anthem - it means we stand for our own.

[justinr73]

Hmmm.

I think Les was born in Queensland and played in NSW but I can see what you were trying to do there. It's Ramsay Street btw.

At least Jono had the good manners to be born in a place called Henderson though eh?

[Hapax Legomenon]

Gary -"I understand those instructions came from on high. I call it "Schmidtball".

Agreed 100% - Doak was forced to implement the instructions of the "well-respected" new DoR who drove the tactics in the background whilst taking his IRFU money.

When Doak then spoke his mind, Kiss used divide and rule with him and Clarke ...... and then they were both made scapegoats.

Doak may not have been ready as Head Coach but neither was Cullen - compare and contrast ???????

We all know the IRFU agenda but where was Logan/Puppet in all this ? I don't know about Bryn - maybe I've rose-coloured specs on because he's an ex-player and less of a "suit" but I want to hear from him ?

If the Doak experiment failed - was it because of their selection of the wrong man ? Or was it due to their lack of support/management of that man ?

Who is accountable for this or is it just accepted that it was Kiss' ultimatum/politicking ?

I am disappointed that Doak hasn't taken the risk to go to France or Southern Hemisphere or held out for another Pro12/premiership job........ but I'm even more disappointed that we've binned the "Ulster way", that we've a coaching team more Ramsey Street than Ravenhill.

I cannot believe that Kiss is still our "DoR" after this shambles. As professionals, the players need to stand up and play for the shirt/team/supporters but they have every right to be disgusted by the behaviour of this man. How can they trust the coaching and leadership of someone who has no integrity, is self-serving and will scapegoat anyone who disagrees or blame anyone who can be used for his own ends?

The insults against Clarke and Doak over the last few years are disgraceful - those of you who still perpetrate this have been conned by Bouncer/IRFU.

Baggy - I salute you - we may not agree about some things but you have realised the sham in front of us all and have had the balls to say it how it is.

You others may slag off anyone who is proud of the history and the shirt, you may prefer the insults and mockery, you may posture over season tix .... and oh yeah ..... why don't you call anyone that disagrees with you "Allen" or "Doak" ?

I will be standing up for 2 Ulstermen when they finish on Saturday every bit as much as I will be standing up for the legend (Ruan) - all 3 have given their all and leave as proud Ulstermen.

SUFTUM is not just a song, it's our Anthem - it means we stand for our own.[/quote]
Very admirable exile, but it all sounds too close to home for me. I suspect you are dressing up personal loyalty as loyalty to Ulster. There's always someone else to blame, Schmidt or Kiss. I still have seen or heard nothing to suggest that Doak and Clarke had more mileage in them. They are totally without excuse. Kiss can at least put forward a believable mitigation case of sorts, but the other two nope.
I could be completely wrong and if I am, I apologise, but this does seem to be your only real topic of serious interest.

[justinr73]

Given your username, I suppose it's quite apt that you should highlight such repetition.

[Bart S]

Gary -"I understand those instructions came from on high. I call it "Schmidtball".

Agreed 100% - Doak was forced to implement the instructions of the "well-respected" new DoR who drove the tactics in the background whilst taking his IRFU money.

When Doak then spoke his mind, Kiss used divide and rule with him and Clarke ...... and then they were both made scapegoats.

Doak may not have been ready as Head Coach but neither was Cullen - compare and contrast ???????

We all know the IRFU agenda but where was Logan/Puppet in all this ? I don't know about Bryn - maybe I've rose-coloured specs on because he's an ex-player and less of a "suit" but I want to hear from him ?

If the Doak experiment failed - was it because of their selection of the wrong man ? Or was it due to their lack of support/management of that man ?

Who is accountable for this or is it just accepted that it was Kiss' ultimatum/politicking ?

I am disappointed that Doak hasn't taken the risk to go to France or Southern Hemisphere or held out for another Pro12/premiership job........ but I'm even more disappointed that we've binned the "Ulster way", that we've a coaching team more Ramsey Street than Ravenhill.

I cannot believe that Kiss is still our "DoR" after this shambles. As professionals, the players need to stand up and play for the shirt/team/supporters but they have every right to be disgusted by the behaviour of this man. How can they trust the coaching and leadership of someone who has no integrity, is self-serving and will scapegoat anyone who disagrees or blame anyone who can be used for his own ends?

The insults against Clarke and Doak over the last few years are disgraceful - those of you who still perpetrate this have been conned by Bouncer/IRFU.

Baggy - I salute you - we may not agree about some things but you have realised the sham in front of us all and have had the balls to say it how it is.

You others may slag off anyone who is proud of the history and the shirt, you may prefer the insults and mockery, you may posture over season tix .... and oh yeah ..... why don't you call anyone that disagrees with you "Allen" or "Doak" ?

I will be standing up for 2 Ulstermen when they finish on Saturday every bit as much as I will be standing up for the legend (Ruan) - all 3 have given their all and leave as proud Ulstermen.

SUFTUM is not just a song, it's our Anthem - it means we stand for our own.[/quote]

Ok Exile - here's the thing. You have set out in a very factual way what has been happening. Others on here have also claimed to know various negative things about the impact of Clarke and/or Doak. So how is a simple man like me supposed to know who to believe? Furthermore, I've seen people claiming to be in the know say the complete opposite of each other, so either it got lost in translation by the time they heard it via their neighbour's cousin's gran or there are different factions/cliques who will tell people different things.

For the record i have not "insulted" Doak, Clarke or Kiss on here as I have no evidence to back up which ones are more or less to blame for our current predicament. Some on here will actually know (and i'd put that total at 1 or 2 posters on here) some MAY know and and plenty of others like to think they do, based on what they have heard.

If all 3 depart then so be it, but equally if Gibbes and Peel come in and the working relationship with Kiss is ok and brings improvements on the pinch then equally so be it. As for Doak and Clarke, the situation is slightly different in that they are confirmed as leaving and as i have said elsewhere, i wish them both well. Clarke has gone to another role where he can visibly prove if he has got what it takes at this level.

[therealspratt]

I'm even more disappointed that we've binned the "Ulster way", that we've a coaching team more Ramsey Street than Ravenhill.

Good, the Ulster Way has been getting us nowhere of late.