London Bridge

[Pablo]

Ok humour me, the weapons used were Sigs (These are derived from the M4 used for years by most Law enforcement and military in the US) and a slightly newer version than those used by PSNI specialist units. These weapons have a very clever site which even in low light affords the officer a very accurate site picture. No requirement for a laser site outside of your shoot em up game these days. They are limited to bursts of three. In any event the various H&K platforms used by the MET are similarly restricted to bursts of three. The training these guys undertake presently, calls for suppressing fire when dealing with marauding terrorist situations. 50 rounds was entirely reasonable. For what it's worth I am told the fake vests were clearly distinguishable as fake when the targets were down and that bomb technicians were on the scene also within minutes. I believe the CTSFO's involved all deserve medals. SCO 19 is the latest variant in unit name changes for the MET and under this command are a number of units with varying degree's of specialist skills relating to firearms. At the top of the firearms pyramid is the CTSFO teams. Maybe I'm not that daft Rooster

[Pablo]

I neglected to mention that the officers didn't know that the terrorists were wearing vests and only observed the fake vests when they approached the bodies. They were actually stabbing and slashing a victim when the unit arrived which makes the shooting all the more top notch.

[Rooster]

Ok humour me, the weapons used were Sigs (These are derived from the M4 used for years by most Law enforcement and military in the US) and a slightly newer version than those used by PSNI specialist units. These weapons have a very clever site which even in low light affords the officer a very accurate site picture. No requirement for a laser site outside of your shoot em up game these days. They are limited to bursts of three. In any event the various H&K platforms used by the MET are similarly restricted to bursts of three. The training these guys undertake presently, calls for suppressing fire when dealing with marauding terrorist situations. 50 rounds was entirely reasonable. For what it's worth I am told the fake vests were clearly distinguishable as fake when the targets were down and that bomb technicians were on the scene also within minutes. I believe the CTSFO's involved all deserve medals. SCO 19 is the latest variant in unit name changes for the MET and under this command are a number of units with varying degree's of specialist skills relating to firearms. At the top of the firearms pyramid is the CTSFO teams. Maybe I'm not that daft Rooster

It is a very big mistake if they start becoming "experts" in bomb vests, one of those guys will explode at some stage, ask anyone who has been middle East and they will leave you in no doubt that you always expect the unexpected with them.

There are a lot of other armed personnel in London and have been for years, I just hope they don't all get confused some day.

I also think 50 shots in a heavily populated area is extremely dangerous and not required if they were as good as you say.

As for medals I have never been in favour of medals or awards for people who are just doing their job, if anyone gets medal it should be the few men on the street who had a go at them or the off duty unarmed officers who waded in to help.

[Pablo]

Rooster, imagine arriving on a scene with a member of the public being slashed and stabbed with limited information coming across a radio stating that suspected terrorists have mown people down with a vehicle and are now stabbing others. Maybe 3-5 Seconds to save someones life, change yours and others for ever if you get it wrong. Their training kicked in thankfully and they used the minimum rounds to achieve their aim. Just doing their job! Pretty sure its not me who's daft.

[Rooster]

Rooster, imagine arriving on a scene with a member of the public being slashed and stabbed with limited information coming across a radio stating that suspected terrorists have mown people down with a vehicle and are now stabbing others. Maybe 3-5 Seconds to save someones life, change yours and others for ever if you get it wrong. Their training kicked in thankfully and they used the minimum rounds to achieve their aim. Just doing their job! Pretty sure its not me who's daft.

I totally agree with what you say but yes that is their job, they signed up for it trained for it and are getting paid for it, it is not a hobby or something they entered involuntarily they actively applied for that line of work.

[Cockatrice]

Having seen the incident I would conclude the police officers did their job and shot dead three terrorists... the terrorists were all standing over a member of the public that they had stabbed and put to the ground... the police approached from both sides and had all three pinned against one side of the street against a building.

When the three knifemen then ran at the police it created a problem for them as they then directed fire into and across each others path. In those circumstances 50 shots was too many and they are lucky more bystanders and other police were not shot and seriously injured.. the minute they had all three standing together over the victim was the opportunity to take them out.. lessons will be learnt..

[Pablo]

Lessons have been learnt and information shared between all members of the CTSFO network throughout Europe, hence the tactics employed. The actions were completely proportionate to deal with the threat prevailing. This happened in seconds and I guess the chap stabbed in front of the officers may disagree with you, as they saved his life.This is not call of duty.

[Cockatrice]

Lessons will undoubtedly be learnt from this as they are from all incidents when debriefed and otherwise analysed which is something that I have said from the offset not only within the CFSFO network but beyond. On the face of it the officers involved in this incident don't appear to have come from the CTSFO.

I have no doubt that the person that was being stabbed would be most grateful for the intervention by the police as he got up after the shooting and walked away.

The incident or at least this part of it when the three terrorists were cornered did indeed only take seconds to develop and for the record again I fully support the shooting. Once cornered they stepped back and away from their victim up against a building and were effectively cornered 180 degrees by the building behind and 180 in front by the surrounding armed police. At least two if not all three of the attackers then run at the police lines hence the police officer was perfectly justified in pulling the trigger...

I would still question whether 50 rounds were expended during this one incident and that if it was then one lesson they may learn is that sometimes less can be more.. especially when firing from a surrounding position at a target between them. As you say and I fully agree it all takes a few seconds and that is when the hours on the training ground can help..

On another issues one small part of this wider problem.. I listened to Mayor Khan again seemingly acknowledge that we must accept this in our large cities. He was asked how many of these people had returned from Syria and other areas fighting for ISIL to London and stated that some 200 persons are currently back living in London having fought for ISIL. Asked what was being done he said nothing.. for me this is were some of the problem at least lies and this people should have been stopped and if not they need revisited and deported if from elsewhere or put prosecuted for some offence... they compared how football hooligans can get banned from travelled yet terrorists can fly as they please under European Law..

[Russ]

Went passed just now

Forensics are everywhere still
Whole area still on lockdown

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[big mervyn]

Level 5 security alert in Espana today and National Police leave cancelled. That's the highest level and means an attack is imminent.

[Rooster]

Went passed just now

Forensics are everywhere still
Whole area still on lockdown

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Press was saying all opened up again

Here is an interesting video 5 days prior to attack
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -q805ghgqb

[Russ]

Went passed just now

Forensics are everywhere still
Whole area still on lockdown

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Press was saying all opened up again

Here is an interesting video 5 days prior to attack
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -q805ghgqb

Borough High Street is reopened but there are police checks on random vehicles

Southwark Street, lots of side streets and the entire market are under lockdown

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[Gary]

Cockatrice, terrorists may not fly anywhere they please under European law. They can be arrested on arrival and evidence of their danger to the UK put before a judge. If the judge agrees, they can be sent back to the country of their last departure - even if that is inside the EU. I'm not sure if the UK ever used this as I suspect Mrs Mayhem, being clearly a Sun reader, had believed all the crap and lies contained within.

[Cockatrice]

Cockatrice, terrorists may not fly anywhere they please under European law. They can be arrested on arrival and evidence of their danger to the UK put before a judge. If the judge agrees, they can be sent back to the country of their last departure - even if that is inside the EU. I'm not sure if the UK ever used this as I suspect Mrs Mayhem, being clearly a Sun reader, had believed all the crap and lies contained within.

Gary.. Was referencing the interview I watched when the interviewer put that to Khan... As an experienced politician I might have expected an answer in line with your comments above except to couldn't provide an answer.. Same for the 200 fighters back in London he just looked blank faced and seemed to accept you just have to accept that.. Again a day or before the election one might have thought a dig at May and her policies except nothing so maybe Khan I'd happy with 200 fighters back on th starts of London..

[Cockatrice]

Went passed just now

Forensics are everywhere still
Whole area still on lockdown

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Press was saying all opened up again

Here is an interesting video 5 days prior to attack
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -q805ghgqb

Rooster .... Posted similar earlier and surprised that more news stations aren't running a story that suggests the police had information that such an attack was about to take place from a group in Barking coulee withe main man having been reported on more than one occasion..

Ps.. I see traffic wardens put tickets on vehicles left over from the attack ..