Old School v New

[rumncoke]

Liz

looking a those highlights the thing that stands out is how much of the attacking play came initially from set scrums -- where the pack was consolidated and not spread across the pitch.

What is lacking in the modern game is the frequency of the set scrum basically because both front rows are picked to disrupt the opposition rather than hook the ball and therefore set scrums result in multiple resets or end in penalties.

Which of course makes a great argument for uncontested scrums which would then do away 22 stone props who can only run 5 metres .

Personally I consider the Laws of the game need to seriously revised to reduce the number of kickable penalties which maybe the basic reason for the safety first approach to the game. eg a midfield off side by defenders frequently gets overlooked because it is not considered to be interfering with play and the offence is not worthy of a 3 point penalty because there is seldom the assurance that an attack wide was going to be made, never mind, a try scored. But what is assured is the option was denied .

[caledoniancelt]

Like what you did there Cocteau Twin.

[Liz Fraser]

Liz

looking a those highlights the thing that stands out is how much of the attacking play came initially from set scrums -- where the pack was consolidated and not spread across the pitch.

What is lacking in the modern game is the frequency of the set scrum basically because both front rows are picked to disrupt the opposition rather than hook the ball and therefore set scrums result in multiple resets or end in penalties.

Which of course makes a great argument for uncontested scrums which would then do away 22 stone props who can only run 5 metres .

Personally I consider the Laws of the game need to seriously revised to reduce the number of kickable penalties which maybe the basic reason for the safety first approach to the game. eg a midfield off side by defenders frequently gets overlooked because it is not considered to be interfering with play and the offence is not worthy of a 3 point penalty because there is seldom the assurance that an attack wide was going to be made, never mind, a try scored. But what is assured is the option was denied .

Scrum is the ideal attacking opportunity for a set play rum especially with the modern rules of being back 5.
Left sides scrums in particular when the 9 is on the blind.
It's a true measure of a sides enterprise and creativity when those opportunities are used to have a centre truck it up as we have seen with McCloskey in recent years.

As for the monotonous resetting I prefer the southern hemisphere approach who just gets on with it by awarding a free kick fairly promptly and usually to the side who was awarded the scrum.

[BaggyTrousers]

My old school was Grosvenor, my new school is La Universidad de la Vida.

[rumncoke]

The thing about the free kick option is the attacking side still faces a spread defence if kick is delayed or the person taking the kick runs instead of passing the ball wide quickly .

most teams fear the scrum restart because it provides the back with space to attack but many referees fail to ensure the defending scrum half is not offside or interfering with his opposite number before the ball is out which seems odd considering the degree of protection they give the scrum half behind a ruck when the ball is playable



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[Bart S]

Defences are harder to break down because a) there is a greater emphasis but on it now, b) endless video analysis etc allows team to know the opposition better and c) forwards in particular are far fitter than they used to be and therfore contribute more to the defence in open play than they probably did in the past. (Yes, i know our Rodney is a disHonourabke exception to this and we could maybe throw the Hond in there too).

Video analysis, more coaching resources etc also mean that flair players weaknesses are more easily identified and known and therefore targetted by opposition teams.

There is no shortage of flair in some of the Super Rugby played but that is helped by a less rigorous policing of some of the laws which again, does not appeal to some people.

Apart from some of the aimless series of ping pong kicking which seems to go for a period in many matches these days i am not sure it was that much more exciting overall than it is today.

[Liz Fraser]

It's just those points you guys make that kind of backs up what I mentioned in my original post.
They are all doing the same thing.
If it's tries off loads and handling you want just go to the 7s circuit.
If it was all so invigorating to the public then why the empty seats?

I just prefer my defences too be unlocked by a moment of individual brilliance rather than a system.
That's why I watched and played the game in the first place.
I'm not naive to remember that there was a load of old toot in between or you don't get such moments nowadays.
Jordan Larmours try v Munster away last year stands out or basically anything Beauden Barrett touches standout.
Just realised what a weird name Beauden is.
He had to be that good to be called something like that I suppose.

[solidarity]

I suppose what this thread clearly shows is that 'improving' something doesn't necessarily make it better. No-one would argue that rugby players are fitter than ever, better trained than ever, play with better equipment than ever on better pitches than ever. Is the game really more fun to play than it was? Is it really more entertaining to watch? You have to wonder what the point is! I reckon I got more enjoyment out of watching my kids play sport at school and watching them now at pretty mediocre levels. My daughter paid her first visit to Ravers for a few years to see the recent friendly. Her biggest impression was how quiet it was. Granted it was only a friendly, but she was actually shocked. May as well finish with a rant against professionalism. When a sport becomes a business, something dies.

[rumncoke]

Baggy, Hilditch was never a Grosvenor teacher he was BHS.

[rumncoke]

Solid--

From a playing point of view I would think the game is less fun at lower levels requiring to high a level of fitness to be a winner -- the old rules enabled you to play "Course Rugby " which was an art form of the game --suitable for older players with a mix of youngsters in the side.

It's one of the reason's clubs have fewer sides now fewer stoppages in play for line outs and scrums .

But stoppages don't make a game that crowds will come to watch and even the amateur game now absorbs money like a sponge. The Clubs once were funded by their bars, the troubles, traffic , and cost of "drink and drive" put paid to that.

[Master of None]

Hilditch taught at Grosvenor.

[Bart S]

Hilditch taught at Grosvenor.

Quick - someone call Gusher to sort this out.

[rumncoke]

He might to as Hilditch was a ref