6 nations 22

[Dublin4]

The harsh reality is that a lot of them are going to be brain damaged by their forties and fifties. Poor Fergus Slattery was one of the great players of my youth but now....
It's hard to tell this to guys in their 20s who see the glamour and success but don't hear enough about what happens to a brain that keeps being chucked around inside that skull.

[big mervyn]

The harsh reality is that a lot of them are going to be brain damaged by their forties and fifties. Poor Fergus Slattery was one of the great players of my youth but now....
It's hard to tell this to guys in their 20s who see the glamour and success but don't hear enough about what happens to a brain that keeps being chucked around inside that skull.

Very sorry to hear Fergus Slattery has health problems.I didn't know that - he couldn't be that old really. Absolute legend for Ireland and the Lions.

[Lurgan Lad]

Sorry BR can't agree with that at all. Ewels lead with his head directly into a defenceless person's head, he hadn't lowered his height at all and there were no mitigating factors. He effectively head butted someone who is 6'6" who hadn't lowered his body height in any way, it was as clear a red card as you are ever going to get.

Firstly - that is definitely not what i am seeing. I'm seeing an upright tackle which had their heads not hit would have been legal (on the edge of high, but still legal). From the angles I saw, Initial contact was definitely not head on head

Secondly - if it were as you say, leading with the head directly into Ryan's head, then why are you even talking about body height or mitigation?

Fair enough BR on the first point, I've no probs disagreeing. Just rewatched it on Youtube and to me it is a clear head to head clash with force and, as a result, a deserved red under the current edicts. Very poor technique on Ewels part and hopefully he learns from it.
On your 2nd point, you had said on a previous post 'Lots of people making statements like 'clear red' but not talking us through their process', I was explaining my process. With no attempt on the tackler to lower himself significantly there was no mitigating factors to downgrade his red to a yellow.

[allezlesverres]

[quote=WestDr post_id=711137 time=1647213542

Here's one to consider - if Ewels had been carrying the ball, would Ryan have been sent off ?
[/quote]

What do you mean? Do you mean if jerseys were swapped would it be a red? Of course it would. It is the reddest red in international rugby in ages. There is nothing remotely controversial about it. It could be one of world rugby's video examples for refs in the future as it clearly shows both the foul (far too high), and the reason (outcome) why it's a foul.

Ryan only has so many concussions left before he has to change career. That could well have been a career ending shot.

Now, completely separate to that conversation, Ryan's carry was poor, as it often is. His body height is way too high, and he has not moved his feet at all before contact. He was going to get folded in that tackle irrespective of foul play.

BR if you're seriously saying that could have been a yellow, you've had too much, put the UHU down.

[solidarity]

In 2015, George Hook wrote, 'I found it hard to care about the results last weekend. All I wanted was brave young men to survive.
As the anthems played in Rome, I had a flashback to the time of the Caesars. Then, in a packed amphitheatre, gladiators saluted the emperor before combat. I wondered if at some future date and time instead of 'Ireland's Call', men in green would raise a clenched fist to the president of the IRFU and say, "We who are about to die, salute you."'

A bit melodramatic perhaps but thought provoking, none the less.

[big mervyn]

I miss Hookie. He frequently talked absolute ballix but he was usually entertaining.

[solidarity]

Another couple of head to head red cards in the English Premiership at the weekend. I assume it's just a coincidence to see three on the tele in one weekend but, for my money, if they keep happening, then keep the red cards coming.

[Dublin4]

Yes, poor Fergus has a form of dementia. The same took Tom Kiernan and Denis Hickie the elder recently. You have to wonder about the hits these guys took and the stuff the present guys take, even more.

Regarding Hook, his world view could not exist today in a world of female quotas on the panel and commentary. A bit of a dinosaur who frankly got so out of touch with modern rugby that he began to become an embarrassment.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

Here's one to consider - if Ewels had been carrying the ball, would Ryan have been sent off ?

What do you mean? Do you mean if jerseys were swapped would it be a red? Of course it would. It is the reddest red in international rugby in ages. There is nothing remotely controversial about it. It could be one of world rugby's video examples for refs in the future as it clearly shows both the foul (far too high), and the reason (outcome) why it's a foul.

Ryan only has so many concussions left before he has to change career. That could well have been a career ending shot.

Now, completely separate to that conversation, Ryan's carry was poor, as it often is. His body height is way too high, and he has not moved his feet at all before contact. He was going to get folded in that tackle irrespective of foul play.

BR if you're seriously saying that could have been a yellow, you've had too much, put the UHU down.

My take on that question "if Ewels had been carrying the ball, would Ryan have been sent off?" is the suggestion that both players were partially to blame for the contact, but it is always the tackler and not the ball carrier who is deemed to be at fault.

Of course had Ewels been carrying and Ryan tackling, it could reasonably be assumed that both players might have been in different stances and approached the contact zone differently, so the question becomes immaterial, but I get what he was getting at.

[BR]

Here's one to consider - if Ewels had been carrying the ball, would Ryan have been sent off ?

What do you mean? Do you mean if jerseys were swapped would it be a red? Of course it would. It is the reddest red in international rugby in ages. There is nothing remotely controversial about it. It could be one of world rugby's video examples for refs in the future as it clearly shows both the foul (far too high), and the reason (outcome) why it's a foul.

Ryan only has so many concussions left before he has to change career. That could well have been a career ending shot.

Now, completely separate to that conversation, Ryan's carry was poor, as it often is. His body height is way too high, and he has not moved his feet at all before contact. He was going to get folded in that tackle irrespective of foul play.

BR if you're seriously saying that could have been a yellow, you've had too much, put the UHU down.

So what about pointing out which bits of the logic I used to arrive at YC are flawed.

[Dharper]

I was fortunate enough to attend the game, and have finally watched it back tonight.
I have zero issues with the red. Fair play to Ryan for pivot passing on the gainline, it’s exactly what is needed for this new Ire way of playing. Goes to show exactly what forwards are capable of and the skill levels available without t resorting to a tight slog and kick fest. Ewels for me lined Ryan up, and followed through post pass. I beleive he could have pulled out, but followed through to put down a marker for the rest of the game. I don’t think there was any intention to injure/foul play - but it was bloody poor technique and he deservedly paid the price. There’s no need to standup wrap tackle, when your man has passed the ball already.

As an aside, as much as Eng scrum was dominant (legit or otherwise) we had a far better kicking game. We pinned eng territorially inside their own half most of the game. They didn’t regain too many contestable kicks they put up. There kick strategy (contestable infield) backed up by fast defensive line speed was always going to put miles on the packs legs later on.
Maybe a few more kicks for lineout/territory would have been better.
1. Territory, 2 put ire lineout under pressure esp Sheehan throwing and later when Pom off pitch. Give your pack a 45 second breather and likely force a crap throw to the front that’ll force a ire box kick back to you, winning you territory. They had the chance to force a slow arm wrestle, but smith and the 9 at times tried to speed the game up to engs disadvantage.

I must admit fair play to jgp- I was swearing when he took a couple of quick tap pens in the 2nd half when I’d have taken the points, but he was obviously forcing the fatigue into eng forwards.

The critical period of 68/72 mins - was the eng pack kill zone. Ire ruck and pass accuracy was superb forcing eng to retreat in defence, and they finally buckled. Henshaw was quality, clearing up tom kite and getting over the gainline or giving his forwards a target to ruck, and once ire phase play hit double figures eng were in trouble.

I would be marginally critical of eng game management however in that period. Seward kicked back to ire - ire won the kick tennis stuff all game (Seward safe under the high ball but limited offering running back). Smith threw in a fast lineout.

I barely remember an eng backline move all game, and was it 1 or 2 visits to ire 22 all game?
The curry sinkler injuries hurt them.

Anyway onwards and upwards.

The eng scrum issues etc, should sharpen the mind for Saturday- personally I can’t stand Scotland- Hogg a bellend.

[Bobbievee]

Completely agree with all of this and especially Hogg comment.....
He is abusing his captains right to question referee decision to opening a debate with his face 12 inches from the referees face. I would yc him just for that alone!!!

[big mervyn]

Completely agree with all of this and especially Hogg comment.....
He is abusing his captains right to question referee decision to opening a debate with his face 12 inches from the referees face. I would yc him just for that alone!!!

Hoggy is gold. The occasional moment of sublime brilliance among a catalogue of high profile feckups and childish petulance - aided and abetted by Russell of course. If Laurel and Hardy were Batman and Robin ...

[flatpass]

Ireland (v Scotland):
15. Hugo Keenan
14. Mack Hansen
13. Garry Ringrose
12. Bundee Aki
11. James Lowe
10. Johnny Sexton (captain)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park
1. Cian Healy
2. Dan Sheehan
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. Tadhg Beirne
5. Iain Henderson
6. Caelan Doris
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Jack Conan
Replacements:
16. Rob Herring
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Finlay Bealham
19. Kieran Treadwell
20. Peter O’Mahony
21. Conor Murray
22. Joey Carbery
23. Robbie Henshaw

[Dave]

How many kiwis and ozzies in the backline? This a wind up? It's St Paddy's day ffs