Next season's Heineken Cup

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Cormac
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by Cormac »

BR wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:39 pm Aye,.played plenty against Lancs. But I believe Sale is Cheshire.

I see Scarlets have the Cheetahs in the Bic. Some joined up thinking could allow them to play 3 games in SA. Won't happen, like, but it could.
Cheetahs are playing their home games in Italy.
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by Neill_M »

Cormac wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:55 pm
BR wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:39 pm Aye,.played plenty against Lancs. But I believe Sale is Cheshire.

I see Scarlets have the Cheetahs in the Bic. Some joined up thinking could allow them to play 3 games in SA. Won't happen, like, but it could.
Cheetahs are playing their home games in Italy.
Indeed - Parma - current Cheetahs DoR Franco Smith using his connections after previously being Italian head coach to base themselves there. They are an invite team for one year only (depending on the Premiership promotion situation in 22/23).
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BR
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by BR »

Had heard it suggested. Didn't see it had been confirmed.
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solidarity
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by solidarity »

Can somebody help me to understand why we have this convoluted system of matches?
How do they choose who plays who?
What are the advantages of this system?
What's wrong with wee groups of four as before?

Answers on a postcard...
Bart S
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by Bart S »

big mervyn wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:33 pm
BR wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 2:13 pm Never played Sale Sharks.

I'm 99% confident we never played the original Sale club either.

Cabl ... ahh bugger!
Certainly not in the professional era.

And almost certainly not in the amateur days either. A fixture against a North of England select used to be a fairly common event back in the day. That may have been played in Sale and included a few boys from Sale FC but that's it I think?
So this will definitely be ulster's first match against Sale of the century
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by Neill_M »

solidarity wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:39 pm Can somebody help me to understand why we have this convoluted system of matches?
How do they choose who plays who?
What are the advantages of this system?
What's wrong with wee groups of four as before?

Answers on a postcard...
They have kept the COVID solution with very few sides exiting at pool stage and you have more knockout games. 1 less game overall v old Pools of 4 etc. Fewer dead rubbers etc.
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BR
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by BR »

solidarity wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:39 pm Can somebody help me to understand why we have this convoluted system of matches?
How do they choose who plays who?
What are the advantages of this system?
What's wrong with wee groups of four as before?

Answers on a postcard...
Compared to the URC, this is a relatively straightforward system.

Each league seeds its 8 teams into a group (2 teams as seed 1, 2 teams as seed 2 .... 2 teams as seed 4)

In each seeding group, one team from each league is randomly allocated to either pool A or pool B. The other team from that league is allocated to the other pool.

The 2 pools operate independently.

In each pool:
Teams seeded 1 play (H&A) the 2 teams seeded 4 that are not from their league.
Teams seeded 2 play the 2 teams seeded 3 that are not from their league.
Teams seeded 3 play the 2 teams seeded 2 ...
Teams seeded 4 play the 2 teams seeded 1 ....

All the draw today did was allocate each team to Pool A or Pool B, we already knew the rest.

In reality they just needed 12 bowls and draw 1 ball from each bowl. Would have been done in a fraction of the time.

Advantages - there is seeding.

What's wrong with groups of 4? 6 pool matches instead of 4. More complex because while you try to avoid intra-league clashes, you can't. 6 pools means 2 runners-up make it through on. Something like points difference because they had Italians or disinterested French in their pool.
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SUFTUM_19
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by SUFTUM_19 »

I know it’s just the luck of the draw, but it’s a bit of a farce that the Prem, URC, Top 14 and champions cup winners are all in the same conference 🤦‍♂️ (And of course it’s the same one Ulster are in)
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by jean valjean »

SUFTUM_19 wrote:I know it’s just the luck of the draw, but it’s a bit of a farce that the Prem, URC, Top 14 and champions cup winners are all in the same conference Image (And of course it’s the same one Ulster are in)
Does it not also mean we can't play them in the first knockout round with conference A playing conference B?

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Neill_M
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by Neill_M »

jean valjean wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:29 pm
SUFTUM_19 wrote:I know it’s just the luck of the draw, but it’s a bit of a farce that the Prem, URC, Top 14 and champions cup winners are all in the same conference Image (And of course it’s the same one Ulster are in)
Does it not also mean we can't play them in the first knockout round with conference A playing conference B?

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Yup, teams in Pool B will play teams in Pool A in Round of 16 with top four seeds in each pool getting home match.

A1 v B8
A2 v B7
A3 v B6
A4 v B5
B4 v A5
B3 v A6
B2 v A7
B1 v A8
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solidarity
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by solidarity »

Many thanks Neill and BR. As clear a summary and rationale as I've ever seen.

If I was in control, I'd go for 8 groups of 3 (one URC, one English, one French in each) playing home and away, no seeding (cup competitions are all about the luck of the draw), winners into the quarter finals. By all means keep same league sides apart in the qf's as well.
I suppose the top 2 in each group could go into a 'round of 16' (there must be a better name than this), if they want another clutch of cash generators but I'd have thought that a smaller competition would be in everyone's interests, heading into a World Cup.
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by big mervyn »

A round of 24 where only 8 get eliminated always feels like a bit of a nonsense tbh
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allezlesverres
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by allezlesverres »

There are advantages and disadvantages to the present system but overall I think it has the potential to improve the tournament. The old pool stages always had loads of dead rubber matches towards the end because some teams had already qualified so could send out the u20s, whereas other teams had lost interest because they were already out. The smaller pools mean the potential for that is greatly reduced so you get more teams competing as hard as they can for a longer time throughout the tournament.

Tough though our group is, they are all a bit tough - there are no real "easy" groups. I fancy us to take 2 wins off Sale and maybe 1 off La Rochelle. As others have said it looks like 2 great weekends away if nothing else.
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by waggonsroll »

Looking at La Rochelle for a trip in Dec/Jan. Flights from Belfast to Paris arrive late so would need an overnight at CDG. The onward train is also a bit convoluted with only a couple of TCVs going south that connect to La Rochelle. The others need a change of stations in Paris. Maybe a better route but not every day is Dublin to Bordeaux with Ryan air but would again need an overnight on the outward journey in Bordeaux unless hiring a car. Train journey is much shorter too. Anyone else got any bright ideas. Sale doesn't look too easy to get to without a car, looks like the team and a long walk or a bus from the Trafford Centre.

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Dharper
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Re: Next season's Heineken Cup

Post by Dharper »

https://www.salesharks.com/club/travell ... e-stadium/

Will look at trying to get to that one, and maybe fly back from brum for the LAR game although suppose the tkts will be like rocking horse brad pitt.
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