Crisis or chronic illness??

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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kingofthehill
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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by kingofthehill »

Columbo wrote:I'm finding it hard to gather my thoughts - perhaps due to the strong Belgian beer I was quaffing to take the pain away during the match - but nonetheless here's my best attempt at saying what my (muddled) thoughts are:

1) Dan McFarland is pretty much a hero to me. Since day 1 he has been a cut above every other Ulster coach in my living memory (and I am ancient, at 44!!) In so many aspects of the game - lineout, maul, defence, breakdown - under him Ulster have never been better. I do believe that at some stage, every side benefits from fresh leadership, but I can't say that I think that we are anywhere near that point with Dan & Ulster

However

2) the 160 mins of game time between the 22-3 lead in Dublin, and the 0-29 HT deficit today were just shocking. Genuinely shocking. In a way that can't be shrugged off. Completely inept attack, shambolic defence, misfiring set piece, absence of leadership. If this was just 'one of those things', that every good side - Leinster, Saracens, Toulouse etc - went through every so often then fine, but it isn't. I have never seen anything comparable from any good side. I watched Munster last week against Toulouse - top of the top 14, 9 points ahead of La Rochelle - and far from being hammered from the off, they took the lead, and ran them close all the way to the end. And Munster are a poor team at the minute. But the sad fact is that they have more fight and bottle in them than we do, and I can't conceive in a month of Sundays of them taking the beatings we have taken in the last 3 games

3) reversion to the long-time Irish rugby default position of lauding 'heroic losses' is not acceptable. Already I'm seeing this all across Irish rugby twitter 'oh what an awesome result for Ulster after that first half', sorry no, I don't buy it. For one thing, La Rochelle are ludicrously over-rated in Ireland, because they've beaten Leinster twice (and the second time was a dire loss by Leinster IMO), for another you can't simply memory-hole a 29 point HT deficit because of a bit of a fightback in the second half. Watch Danty grinning and shrugging as he's yellow-carded - the game was in the bag, and ROG / La Rochelle couldn't give a f**k if Ulster get a bonus point or two, we were never winning that game.

4) another game where we concede over 35 points. That's now 5 out of 10 this season. Appalling. Unacceptable.

So where the hell does that leave us? I've no doubt that Dan et al will want to go balls out now against Connacht and try to win the next 3 games, and paper over the cracks. OK fine, I want that to happen too (and I believe it can) - but until we have a proper reckoning with what has caused us to absolutely implode in the last few weeks, then we are absolutely no closer to winning clutch matches against good sides, and therefore no chance of getting any silverware once again.

What does a proper reckoning look like? I really don't know. Do the current attack & defence coaches need to up their game (yes)? Or be replaced? Does selection have to change? (I will say that Stewart and McCann both suggested this afternoon that they should have seen more game time up until now...)
Wouldn’t be surprised to see McFarland linked to Leicester job.

Any team that’s conceding 35 points a game (1/2 the games this season) should be looking at one area and one area only in my opinion. For Ulster to be 4th in the URC (with a game in hand) having conceded as many points as they have is beyond impressive.

Dinger should never of been appointed based on his defensive record in previous positions. If Ulster had a Shawn Edwards/Kevin Seinfeld leading defence then you would notice a huge difference.

Did we have the ball to attack against Sale? We are soo passive in defence.


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Big-al
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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by Big-al »

Discipline and maul defence for me are bigger issues. Ulster are giving away far too many penalties, opposition teams then get into our half or 22, start mauling, win more penalties and build a score. Yesterday the ball La Rochelle won was simply far too quick. No team can defend against quality opposition with such quick ball.

When McFarland does leave ( I hope he doesn’t for a while) then Jared Payne for me should be the leading candidate to replace him.
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kingofthehill
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Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by kingofthehill »

Big-al wrote:Discipline and maul defence for me are bigger issues. Ulster are giving away far too many penalties, opposition teams then get into our half or 22, start mauling, win more penalties and build a score. Yesterday the ball La Rochelle won was simply far too quick. No team can defend against quality opposition with such quick ball.

When McFarland does leave ( I hope he doesn’t for a while) then Jared Payne for me should be the leading candidate to replace him.
I should of included discipline in that post.

No thanks on the Payne head coach. It does surprise me than Lancaster wasn’t offered a head coaching job in Ireland tbh.


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Jackie Brown
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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by Jackie Brown »

kingofthehill wrote:
Big-al wrote:Discipline and maul defence for me are bigger issues. Ulster are giving away far too many penalties, opposition teams then get into our half or 22, start mauling, win more penalties and build a score. Yesterday the ball La Rochelle won was simply far too quick. No team can defend against quality opposition with such quick ball.

When McFarland does leave ( I hope he doesn’t for a while) then Jared Payne for me should be the leading candidate to replace him.
I should of included discipline in that post.

No thanks on the Payne head coach. It does surprise me than Lancaster wasn’t offered a head coaching job in Ireland tbh.


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I'd take Lancaster every day of the week. If Dan left, which I hope he doesn't.

My memory is Bell wasn't a decent coach when he had his first stint here.

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kingofthehill
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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by kingofthehill »

Jackie Brown wrote:
kingofthehill wrote:
Big-al wrote:Discipline and maul defence for me are bigger issues. Ulster are giving away far too many penalties, opposition teams then get into our half or 22, start mauling, win more penalties and build a score. Yesterday the ball La Rochelle won was simply far too quick. No team can defend against quality opposition with such quick ball.

When McFarland does leave ( I hope he doesn’t for a while) then Jared Payne for me should be the leading candidate to replace him.
I should of included discipline in that post.

No thanks on the Payne head coach. It does surprise me than Lancaster wasn’t offered a head coaching job in Ireland tbh.


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I'd take Lancaster every day of the week. If Dan left, which I hope he doesn't.

My memory is Bell wasn't a decent coach when he had his first stint here.

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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by StandUp »

kingofthehill wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:11 pm
Columbo wrote:I'm finding it hard to gather my thoughts - perhaps due to the strong Belgian beer I was quaffing to take the pain away during the match - but nonetheless here's my best attempt at saying what my (muddled) thoughts are:

1) Dan McFarland is pretty much a hero to me. Since day 1 he has been a cut above every other Ulster coach in my living memory (and I am ancient, at 44!!) In so many aspects of the game - lineout, maul, defence, breakdown - under him Ulster have never been better. I do believe that at some stage, every side benefits from fresh leadership, but I can't say that I think that we are anywhere near that point with Dan & Ulster

However

2) the 160 mins of game time between the 22-3 lead in Dublin, and the 0-29 HT deficit today were just shocking. Genuinely shocking. In a way that can't be shrugged off. Completely inept attack, shambolic defence, misfiring set piece, absence of leadership. If this was just 'one of those things', that every good side - Leinster, Saracens, Toulouse etc - went through every so often then fine, but it isn't. I have never seen anything comparable from any good side. I watched Munster last week against Toulouse - top of the top 14, 9 points ahead of La Rochelle - and far from being hammered from the off, they took the lead, and ran them close all the way to the end. And Munster are a poor team at the minute. But the sad fact is that they have more fight and bottle in them than we do, and I can't conceive in a month of Sundays of them taking the beatings we have taken in the last 3 games

3) reversion to the long-time Irish rugby default position of lauding 'heroic losses' is not acceptable. Already I'm seeing this all across Irish rugby twitter 'oh what an awesome result for Ulster after that first half', sorry no, I don't buy it. For one thing, La Rochelle are ludicrously over-rated in Ireland, because they've beaten Leinster twice (and the second time was a dire loss by Leinster IMO), for another you can't simply memory-hole a 29 point HT deficit because of a bit of a fightback in the second half. Watch Danty grinning and shrugging as he's yellow-carded - the game was in the bag, and ROG / La Rochelle couldn't give a f**k if Ulster get a bonus point or two, we were never winning that game.

4) another game where we concede over 35 points. That's now 5 out of 10 this season. Appalling. Unacceptable.

So where the hell does that leave us? I've no doubt that Dan et al will want to go balls out now against Connacht and try to win the next 3 games, and paper over the cracks. OK fine, I want that to happen too (and I believe it can) - but until we have a proper reckoning with what has caused us to absolutely implode in the last few weeks, then we are absolutely no closer to winning clutch matches against good sides, and therefore no chance of getting any silverware once again.

What does a proper reckoning look like? I really don't know. Do the current attack & defence coaches need to up their game (yes)? Or be replaced? Does selection have to change? (I will say that Stewart and McCann both suggested this afternoon that they should have seen more game time up until now...)
Wouldn’t be surprised to see McFarland linked to Leicester job.

Any team that’s conceding 35 points a game (1/2 the games this season) should be looking at one area and one area only in my opinion. For Ulster to be 4th in the URC (with a game in hand) having conceded as many points as they have is beyond impressive.

Dinger should never of been appointed based on his defensive record in previous positions. If Ulster had a Shawn Edwards/Kevin Seinfeld leading defence then you would notice a huge difference.

Did we have the ball to attack against Sale? We are soo passive in defence.


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Edwards/Sinfield two great suggestions KOTH. Neither of whom would ever accept the kind of defence we have shown this year.
allezlesverres
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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by allezlesverres »

Lots of folk delighted at our plucky defeat against SR, but very little mention of the fact that until the second half, Ulster had, across the last three games, conceded over 100 unanswered points. That's a truly mental and shameful stat. That's got to be some kind of record.
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kingofthehill
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Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by kingofthehill »

allezlesverres wrote:Lots of folk delighted at our plucky defeat against SR, but very little mention of the fact that until the second half, Ulster had, across the last three games, conceded over 100 unanswered points. That's a truly mental and shameful stat. That's got to be some kind of record.
Conceded 36 points or more in 5 of the 9 games so far this season. 36 points!!!

How on earth are ulster winning games with that sort of defence?


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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by justinr73 »

I think it was actually 68 but let’s round it up to a 100.

Certainly enough to cancel the Christmas party anyway.
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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by jean valjean »

kingofthehill wrote:
allezlesverres wrote:Lots of folk delighted at our plucky defeat against SR, but very little mention of the fact that until the second half, Ulster had, across the last three games, conceded over 100 unanswered points. That's a truly mental and shameful stat. That's got to be some kind of record.
Conceded 36 points or more in 5 of the 9 games so far this season. 36 points!!!

How on earth are ulster winning games with that sort of defence?


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Because we played a load of dud teams ( connacht, scarlets, zebre, lions) or caught others at a low ebb without front liners (ospreys & munster).
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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by allezlesverres »

justinr73 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:31 pm I think it was actually 68 but let’s round it up to a 100.

Certainly enough to cancel the Christmas party anyway.
Was it not 35 v leinster, 39 v sale and 29 up to half time v SR? I'm not going back to watch them again due to PTSD.
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kingofthehill
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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by kingofthehill »

allezlesverres wrote:
justinr73 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:31 pm I think it was actually 68 but let’s round it up to a 100.

Certainly enough to cancel the Christmas party anyway.
Was it not 35 v leinster, 39 v sale and 29 up to half time v SR? I'm not going back to watch them again due to PTSD.
38 against Leinster?


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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by justinr73 »

allezlesverres wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:58 pm
justinr73 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:31 pm I think it was actually 68 but let’s round it up to a 100.

Certainly enough to cancel the Christmas party anyway.
Was it not 35 v leinster, 39 v sale and 29 up to half time v SR? I'm not going back to watch them again due to PTSD.
I don’t blame you.

I watched the Leinster game after a night out but I have a vague recollection of Super Sam Carter crashing over at the death.

I may have been dreaming or you may have switched it off/ left the ground by then?!
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Re: Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by Columbo »

I've heard that the last few weeks have been absolutely grim, and that there's big pressure on both attack and defence to deliver..
..one more thing
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kingofthehill
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Crisis or chronic illness??

Post by kingofthehill »

Columbo wrote:I've heard that the last few weeks have been absolutely grim, and that there's big pressure on both attack and defence to deliver..
God help us!
Won’t be too long before Ferris will seize his opportunity to stay relevant amongst the finest of rugby brains in Ulster….again!
I’m dreading hearing the words, ‘heart’, ‘attitude’, ‘fight’ and ‘communication’ from him.


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