Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Talk about the men in white, and everything Ulster!!

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CIMANFOREVER
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by CIMANFOREVER »

Fwiw, McF seems to be running up the white fleg on the 42.ie
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by StandUp »

CIMANFOREVER wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:32 am
Dave wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:31 pm
big mervyn wrote:
Dave wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 9:57 pm Glipe is such an underused insult these days.
I use it when referring to Jamie Bryson. Fits nicely.

It pays to enrich your word power. (Anybody recall which popular monthly periodical featured that quiz?)
Kunt is a good one, too.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by Godots bedpan »

Interesting to read the comments as a Leinster fan. Was in the south stand, uncovered and sodden, fan wise the Ulster fans around us were good fun -one or two had obviously been on the sherbets since the 11 o’clock train down but it was very good natured. Was good craic in the bars afterwards too. Leinster have some arriviste fans in the last few years, unfortunately that comes with being successful. Every club has a few outlier “fans” that you would rather not be associated with.

Re the game reading the comments from an Ulster perspective about Luke Pearse gave me a good laugh, shows you there are many Ulster fans just as one eyed as me when it comes to appraising a referee’s performance. I thought he was extremely lenient on Ulster, TOT staying on the pitch at the end of the first half was a joke! The same player giving away 3 penalties in the red zone. I was seriously questioning LP’s Anglo Saxon parentage and possible lack of a father. The Ulster management realised it too and subbed TOT a bit early at half time. LP also brought Ross Byrne a good few yards wider than Baird's try had been scored which was a really poor error and could have been crucial. Was also surprised they didn’t check if Hume was onside as it looked marginal, James Ryan possibly should have been a bit more vocal about that. Thought Sheridan was a wee bit unlucky as Byrne seemed to juggle the ball a bit and dipped before he arrived, but he did clip him in the head. Ulster’s defence held up very well in fairness but they mad life somewhat harder for themselves through their ill discipline. Thought tactically Leinster played Lowry very well, his first instinct is always to run, he didn’t rein that in when maybe he should have, he wound up running into traffic most of the time. Baird got one tackle on him at full speed which was a thing of beauty and for me Baird was MOTM.

Not sure any of the Ulster backs on the outside of the Irish squad really had a game to catch the watching Andy Farrells eye, game largely passed Baloucoune by, Hume mixed the good with the bad, Lowry went with his instinct to run which played into Leinster’s hands, and Leinster got the better of the kicking contest. Burns the cross kick apart didn’t really control the game or succeed in managing the territory to put his pack in a position where they could do damage, hard to do it when your pack is going backwards in open play in fairness.

A URC rematch is still on the cards, would be interesting to see the two teams go at it on a dry sod in decent conditions
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by justinr73 »

StandUp wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:02 pm
CIMANFOREVER wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:32 am
Dave wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:31 pm
big mervyn wrote:
Dave wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 9:57 pm Glipe is such an underused insult these days.
I use it when referring to Jamie Bryson. Fits nicely.

It pays to enrich your word power. (Anybody recall which popular monthly periodical featured that quiz?)
Kunt is a good one, too.
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I took it as a compliment at the time.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by Dave »

Godots bedpan wrote:Interesting to read the comments as a Leinster fan. Was in the south stand, uncovered and sodden, fan wise the Ulster fans around us were good fun -one or two had obviously been on the sherbets since the 11 o’clock train down but it was very good natured. Was good craic in the bars afterwards too. Leinster have some arriviste fans in the last few years, unfortunately that comes with being successful. Every club has a few outlier “fans” that you would rather not be associated with.

Re the game reading the comments from an Ulster perspective about Luke Pearse gave me a good laugh, shows you there are many Ulster fans just as one eyed as me when it comes to appraising a referee’s performance. I thought he was extremely lenient on Ulster, TOT staying on the pitch at the end of the first half was a joke! The same player giving away 3 penalties in the red zone. I was seriously questioning LP’s Anglo Saxon parentage and possible lack of a father. The Ulster management realised it too and subbed TOT a bit early at half time. LP also brought Ross Byrne a good few yards wider than Baird's try had been scored which was a really poor error and could have been crucial. Was also surprised they didn’t check if Hume was onside as it looked marginal, James Ryan possibly should have been a bit more vocal about that. Thought Sheridan was a wee bit unlucky as Byrne seemed to juggle the ball a bit and dipped before he arrived, but he did clip him in the head. Ulster’s defence held up very well in fairness but they mad life somewhat harder for themselves through their ill discipline. Thought tactically Leinster played Lowry very well, his first instinct is always to run, he didn’t rein that in when maybe he should have, he wound up running into traffic most of the time. Baird got one tackle on him at full speed which was a thing of beauty and for me Baird was MOTM.

Not sure any of the Ulster backs on the outside of the Irish squad really had a game to catch the watching Andy Farrells eye, game largely passed Baloucoune by, Hume mixed the good with the bad, Lowry went with his instinct to run which played into Leinster’s hands, and Leinster got the better of the kicking contest. Burns the cross kick apart didn’t really control the game or succeed in managing the territory to put his pack in a position where they could do damage, hard to do it when your pack is going backwards in open play in fairness.

A URC rematch is still on the cards, would be interesting to see the two teams go at it on a dry sod in decent conditions
If you ask both sets of fans, we could get it down to a nil nil.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by thecrouch »

So It Is wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:50 am I'm sure its been covered already, and they probably would've scored eventually anyway, but how bad was McCann's "tackle" on Baird before his try?

Guy must be having nightmares about that. Its like he had planned to put in a shot then at the last minute he realised he had Baird at 20/1 on Paddy Power for the first try scorer so waved him through.
Jury is still out for me on McCann, he's at risk of becoming yet another Ulster produced forward who is nearly good enough. There's a very long list of players who get a bit of hype and then don't make that final step forward in their development.

Contrast him to Sheridan, who has come through and grabbed it with both hands. Sheridan has definitely moved ahead of McCann for me and we should be trying to get that guy as many minutes as we can.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by big mervyn »

StandUp wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:02 pm
CIMANFOREVER wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:32 am
Dave wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 10:31 pm
big mervyn wrote:
Dave wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 9:57 pm Glipe is such an underused insult these days.
I use it when referring to Jamie Bryson. Fits nicely.

It pays to enrich your word power. (Anybody recall which popular monthly periodical featured that quiz?)
Kunt is a good one, too.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by Dharper »

I wouldn’t say it was a moan by Dan McF as such, I’d wonder if it had a few people within the Irfu uncomfortable though.


I’d actually love to hear a post UR interview by DMcF re his time within UR and the challenges of the Irfu system and ulster province itself, and what was done to give him the resources needed for a successful pro set up.
Last edited by Dharper on Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by Dharper »

CIMANFOREVER wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:33 am Fwiw, McF seems to be running up the white fleg on the 42.ie
I wouldn’t say that:

There is clear frustration re the strength of Leinster, and it certainly isn’t the first time he’s referenced it. I’m enjoying the tetchiness of some of the Leinster supporters merely blaming deflection by McFarland, and ignoring the advantages Leinster enjoy. Personally I have no real gripe, they have maximised their advantages-fair play to them.

Do I honestly believe the Irfu want 3 provinces like Leinster? 50 man squads with 30 viable internationals? No…..it’d cost too much, and isn’t necessary for a successful Ireland team which is the overall goal…successful Ireland team drives everything else….success sells, tkts, merchandise, tv deals, sponsorship, hospitality….etc.

Why double/treble etc the player contract cost overall of providing that when it’s unnecessary? UR does not have the financial clout from the private sector of Leinster or benefactors of Munster…..even if they could attract high profile foreign talent via talent it’d be blocked due to allowing player pathways.

The only way is a successful schools and academy pathway…..now in the “dark yrs” what did the Irfu do re UR?
Presume they were fully involved in DMcF recruitment, strength and conditioning personnel change, academy changes reLongwell?…..if UR couldn’t be trusted to carry out the necessary wouldn’t the Irfu take it out of their hands?….if there was a desire too?

What approaches have occurred re active involvement by UR/Irfu into schools in Ulster re coaching?….or clubs? I’d genuinely like an answer if anyone knows. There are rumours re elite schools coaching in Dublin paid by private sector turning out a production line of apprentice pros…and that’s fine, no problem…..but let’s cut out the tom kite thinking it’s a level playing field.

We have to get our own house in order re talent identification esp outside traditional routes, academy, and finally within the pro set up. We have definitely stalled this yr re our attack. That said finally we have in McCann Sheridan Rea 3 domestic backrowers.

In the last 10yrs only Toulon LAR & Saracens have bettered Leinster in more than a 1 off…..sky high budgets, unchecked domestic/foreign player, and coaches recruitment: things totally unavailable to UR.
If we can be top 3/4 in league, and last 16/qf in euro cup that’s a pretty decent standard bearing our resources.

I’d actually love to hear a post UR interview by DMcF re his time within UR and the challenges of the Irfu system, and what was done to give him the resources needed for a successful pro set up.

As much as the perception of Rugby provinces, these are businesses and that should always be kept in mind.
Salary, career advancement opportunities, geography, home life all play a part for players and coaches….we are a stepping stone, we do not have the pull of Leinster.

The reality is you have still gave a decent chance of representing Ireland by playing 15 games for Leinster a season (URC gimmes and little top level euro cup exposure) due to your day to day environment rather than 25 games at another province with 4/5 games in Europe….that’s a sobering thought. With that in mind why would anyone move provinces - meaning spouse employment disruption, kids schools, away from friends and family etc for no extra money, increased workload on your body and likely little int recognition? Did Cooney get much recognition for his 3/4 season excellence?….no wonder a player like max Deegan will sit it out in the stands waiting for an injury.

We need to concentrate on ourselves and ignore what’s happening down the road.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by jean valjean »

Simple exercise to see if it is the schools or academy which make leinster great. Don't allow any leinster schools player to join the leinster academy for a few years but instead let the other 3 bid for them. Leinster can have their pick from the other 3 provinces. Surely they could have no arguments picking from 3 provinces instead of one? Could they?
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by big mervyn »

Been watching the slomo of JGP's try on YouChube and Byrne 100% knocked that on. The ball changes trajectory and drops like a stone after he touched it.

They did have penalty advantage so may well have scored anyway ... but not necessarily.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by Dharper »

jean valjean wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:55 pm Simple exercise to see if it is the schools or academy which make leinster great. Don't allow any leinster schools player to join the leinster academy for a few years but instead let the other 3 bid for them. Leinster can have their pick from the other 3 provinces. Surely they could have no arguments picking from 3 provinces instead of one? Could they?
I thought the Leinster academy was really adding value etc (maybe still the case) however there has been mentionings on podcasts etc of elite level coaching etc in private schools paid for “in house” (not Leinster or Irfu, as anyone would think). Add in potential rugby scholarships etc. This is clearly a big springboard pre academy….I assume not replicated in ulster? Now multiple that by the additional number of private schools etc in Dublin area - means quality and numerical advantage.

UR need to find private sector money: rather than a high profile saffer signing, spend it on elite coaching for schools/clubs or academy, truly non biased talent identification from all communities and sporting background. Build a tight bond with private schools, maybe provide school bursaries to the best prospects from non traditional routes. LA Rochelle are partially financed by 500 local companies- we need that kind of buy in.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by thecrouch »

Dharper wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:24 pm
jean valjean wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:55 pm Simple exercise to see if it is the schools or academy which make leinster great. Don't allow any leinster schools player to join the leinster academy for a few years but instead let the other 3 bid for them. Leinster can have their pick from the other 3 provinces. Surely they could have no arguments picking from 3 provinces instead of one? Could they?
I thought the Leinster academy was really adding value etc (maybe still the case) however there has been mentionings on podcasts etc of elite level coaching etc in private schools paid for “in house” (not Leinster or Irfu, as anyone would think). Add in potential rugby scholarships etc. This is clearly a big springboard pre academy….I assume not replicated in ulster? Now multiple that by the additional number of private schools etc in Dublin area - means quality and numerical advantage.

UR need to find private sector money: rather than a high profile saffer signing, spend it on elite coaching for schools/clubs or academy, truly non biased talent identification from all communities and sporting background. Build a tight bond with private schools, maybe provide school bursaries to the best prospects from non traditional routes. LA Rochelle are partially financed by 500 local companies- we need that kind of buy in.
There is big bucks flowing into the Leinster private schools.

The lads in the top schools down here are basically professional, they are treated like pros in everything from their training to their meals to their gym sessions. The only difference is they have to go to lessons during the day.

They are finishing school ready to play pro rugby for Leinster in the URC because the culture and environment of professional training is not alien to them, it's just a continuation of what they've already been doing for years.

All this, without the IRFU or the Leinster branch having to spend a cent.

We will never compete with this, we just don't have the demographics.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by big mervyn »

thecrouch wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:39 pm
Dharper wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:24 pm
jean valjean wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:55 pm Simple exercise to see if it is the schools or academy which make leinster great. Don't allow any leinster schools player to join the leinster academy for a few years but instead let the other 3 bid for them. Leinster can have their pick from the other 3 provinces. Surely they could have no arguments picking from 3 provinces instead of one? Could they?
I thought the Leinster academy was really adding value etc (maybe still the case) however there has been mentionings on podcasts etc of elite level coaching etc in private schools paid for “in house” (not Leinster or Irfu, as anyone would think). Add in potential rugby scholarships etc. This is clearly a big springboard pre academy….I assume not replicated in ulster? Now multiple that by the additional number of private schools etc in Dublin area - means quality and numerical advantage.

UR need to find private sector money: rather than a high profile saffer signing, spend it on elite coaching for schools/clubs or academy, truly non biased talent identification from all communities and sporting background. Build a tight bond with private schools, maybe provide school bursaries to the best prospects from non traditional routes. LA Rochelle are partially financed by 500 local companies- we need that kind of buy in.
There is big bucks flowing into the Leinster private schools.

The lads in the top schools down here are basically professional, they are treated like pros in everything from their training to their meals to their gym sessions. The only difference is they have to go to lessons during the day.

They are finishing school ready to play pro rugby for Leinster in the URC because the culture and environment of professional training is not alien to them, it's just a continuation of what they've already been doing for years.

All this, without the IRFU or the Leinster branch having to spend a cent.

We will never compete with this, we just don't have the demographics.
Your best chance is if NI adopts a system of comprehensive education prompting the growth of private schools.
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Re: Leinster VS Ulster HC QF 01/04/23

Post by big mervyn »

thecrouch wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:39 pm
Dharper wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:24 pm
jean valjean wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 2:55 pm Simple exercise to see if it is the schools or academy which make leinster great. Don't allow any leinster schools player to join the leinster academy for a few years but instead let the other 3 bid for them. Leinster can have their pick from the other 3 provinces. Surely they could have no arguments picking from 3 provinces instead of one? Could they?
I thought the Leinster academy was really adding value etc (maybe still the case) however there has been mentionings on podcasts etc of elite level coaching etc in private schools paid for “in house” (not Leinster or Irfu, as anyone would think). Add in potential rugby scholarships etc. This is clearly a big springboard pre academy….I assume not replicated in ulster? Now multiple that by the additional number of private schools etc in Dublin area - means quality and numerical advantage.

UR need to find private sector money: rather than a high profile saffer signing, spend it on elite coaching for schools/clubs or academy, truly non biased talent identification from all communities and sporting background. Build a tight bond with private schools, maybe provide school bursaries to the best prospects from non traditional routes. LA Rochelle are partially financed by 500 local companies- we need that kind of buy in.
There is big bucks flowing into the Leinster private schools.

The lads in the top schools down here are basically professional, they are treated like pros in everything from their training to their meals to their gym sessions. The only difference is they have to go to lessons during the day.

They are finishing school ready to play pro rugby for Leinster in the URC because the culture and environment of professional training is not alien to them, it's just a continuation of what they've already been doing for years.

All this, without the IRFU or the Leinster branch having to spend a cent.

We will never compete with this, we just don't have the demographics.
Your best chance is if NI adopts a system of comprehensive education prompting the growth of private schools.

Martin McGuinness tried to help us ...
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