Contract Situation

[UlsterNo9]

Well I have to say that the idea of losing JTA, and even Milo, even though he’s not great - to be replaced by some guy who couldn’t make the grade at renowned scrummaging fortress Munster and who is currently playing semi-pro in Aus is extremely

So much so that I can’t really believe it will happen. I can only assume we have a decent 3 lined up, or that in fact we’re extending one of the current ones.

As for the youngsters, I was very impressed by Scott Wilson in last years 20s, but TH is a brutal position, and realistically he’s probably 2-3 years min away from first team duties IMO (worth remembering just how exceptional TOT is in this respect…)

Ultimate irony would be Munter signing JTA....

From an IRFU point of view it wasn't that long ago since Rodney Ah You, Tony Buckley etc were getting caps in the front row as international tight heads.

If I was the IRFU I'd be saying dry your eyes Ulster, get your house in order at youth pathway level and produce your own props.

We've four tight head props on the books Moore (Leinster) O'Toole (Leinster born, Australia until 16) Milo (Saffer) JTA (Kiwi).

Simon Best and Deccie Fitz only two tight heads produced in nearly 25 years of pro rugby that could hold down a starting spot. Absolutely pathetic. Even if you weren't trying more should have been produced.

[CIMANFOREVER]

Well I have to say that the idea of losing JTA, and even Milo, even though he’s not great - to be replaced by some guy who couldn’t make the grade at renowned scrummaging fortress Munster and who is currently playing semi-pro in Aus is extremely

So much so that I can’t really believe it will happen. I can only assume we have a decent 3 lined up, or that in fact we’re extending one of the current ones.

As for the youngsters, I was very impressed by Scott Wilson in last years 20s, but TH is a brutal position, and realistically he’s probably 2-3 years min away from first team duties IMO (worth remembering just how exceptional TOT is in this respect…)

Ultimate irony would be Munter signing JTA....

From an IRFU point of view it wasn't that long ago since Rodney Ah You, Tony Buckley etc were getting caps in the front row as international tight heads.

If I was the IRFU I'd be saying dry your eyes Ulster, get your house in order at youth pathway level and produce your own props.

We've four tight head props on the books Moore (Leinster) O'Toole (Leinster born, Australia until 16) Milo (Saffer) JTA (Kiwi).

Simon Best and Deccie Fitz only two tight heads produced in nearly 25 years of pro rugby that could hold down a starting spot. Absolutely pathetic. Even if you weren't trying more should have been produced.

Believe me I agree No9, but the reality is, apart from hooker, we struggle with any sort of reasonable front 5 standard. I'm not even sure it's lack of raw materials, but development and coaching these guys to transition. There's been plenty of FR talent stalling after u20s level, McBurney, Taylor to name a few ( Taylor who murdered the AB 20S Front row,) was lost to UR and went to work in Vancouver ffs. Played rugby locally at UBC I believe.) Mcburney was same year as Porter and never fulfilled his potential. Raw materials are there but UR CONSISTENTLY pishes it up the wall. That tells me all I need to know about UR s "culture of excellence." This goes back at least a decade. Wither Ferris, Wilson and Best as a BR, or Henry, McMillan, Pollock?
Sheridan looks a player- will he make it by his own natural talent?

[UlsterNo9]

Believe me I agree No9, but the reality is, apart from hooker, we struggle with any sort of reasonable front 5 standard. I'm not even sure it's lack of raw materials, but development and coaching these guys to transition. There's been plenty of FR talent stalling after u20s level, McBurney, Taylor to name a few ( Taylor who murdered the AB 20S Front row,) was lost to UR and went to work in Vancouver ffs. Played rugby locally at UBC I believe.) Mcburney was same year as Porter and never fulfilled his potential. Raw materials are there but UR CONSISTENTLY pishes it up the wall. That tells me all I need to know about UR s "culture of excellence." This goes back at least a decade. Wither Ferris, Wilson and Best as a BR, or Henry, McMillan, Pollock?
Sheridan looks a player- will he make it by his own natural talent?

Appreciate I'm preaching to the choir.

The fact Henderson on the 10th November 2012 versus South Africa remains the last Ulster born forward to make his international debut for Ireland boils my absolute pish. I'll use that word pathetic again, it's a disgrace.

[shamalicious]

Surely some of the lads coming through from U20s over the last couple of seasons will make it? Last year's U20s it was all forwards.

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[UlsterNo9]

Surely some of the lads coming through from U20s over the last couple of seasons will make it? Last year's U20s it was all forwards.

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Shamy I gave up thinking that about 5 years ago, I'm glad there are people like your good self out there still believing. Since Henderson made his debut 2012, the following 30 Ulster pathway forwards have been capped by Ireland at U20

John Donnan, Conor Joyce, Christopher Taylor, Frankie Taggart, Lorcan Dow, Zack McCall, Alex Thompson, Michael Lagan, Adam McBurney, Peter Cooper, Marcus Rea, Matthew Agnew, Matthew Dalton, Joe Dunleavy, Aaron Hall, Azur Allison, David McCann, Tom Stewart, John McKee*, George Saunderson, Harry Sheridan, Reuben Crothers, Josh Hanlon, Adam McNamee, John Glasgow, James McCormick, Scott Wilson, Charlie Irvine, Joe Hopes, James McNabney

* John McKee (Ulster pathway, contracted at Leinster)

I may have left a few out, open to correction and adding to the list.

So you have four out of thirty thus far in Marcus Rea, David McCann, Tom Stewart and Harry Sheridan deemed capable of becoming professional. Never mind starting on thinking there could be international players in there.

Quite frankly only 30 deemed capable of Ireland U20 is pathetic, a conversion rate of 4 professionals is pathetic, zero internationals is pathetic.

[shamalicious]

Surely some of the lads coming through from U20s over the last couple of seasons will make it? Last year's U20s it was all forwards.

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk

Shamy I gave up thinking that about 5 years ago, I'm glad there are people like your good self out there still believing. Since Henderson made his debut 2012, the following 30 Ulster pathway forwards have been capped by Ireland at U20

John Donnan, Conor Joyce, Christopher Taylor, Frankie Taggart, Lorcan Dow, Zack McCall, Alex Thompson, Michael Lagan, Adam McBurney, Peter Cooper, Marcus Rea, Matthew Agnew, Matthew Dalton, Joe Dunleavy, Aaron Hall, Azur Allison, David McCann, Tom Stewart, John McKee*, George Saunderson, Harry Sheridan, Reuben Crothers, Josh Hanlon, Adam McNamee, John Glasgow, James McCormick, Scott Wilson, Charlie Irvine, Joe Hopes, James McNabney

* John McKee (Ulster pathway, contracted at Leinster)

I may have left a few out, open to correction and adding to the list.

So you have four out of thirty thus far in Marcus Rea, David McCann, Tom Stewart and Harry Sheridan deemed capable of becoming professional. Never mind starting on thinking there could be international players in there.

Quite frankly only 30 deemed capable of Ireland U20 is pathetic, a conversion rate of 4 professionals is pathetic, zero internationals is pathetic.

Jeez, that makes for depressing reading. Be interesting how that conversion % compared to the other 3 provinces. Or even just Connacht and Munster. Leinster are Leinster and we know too well how good their pathway is.

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[Dave]

Dunleavy>Jones. Discuss...

[Yoda]

[quote=shamalicious post_id=727145 time=<a href="tel:1681554665">1681554665</a> user_id=894]
Surely some of the lads coming through from U20s over the last couple of seasons will make it? Last year's U20s it was all forwards.

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk


Shamy I gave up thinking that about 5 years ago, I'm glad there are people like your good self out there still believing. Since Henderson made his debut 2012, the following 30 Ulster pathway forwards have been capped by Ireland at U20

John Donnan, Conor Joyce, Christopher Taylor, Frankie Taggart, Lorcan Dow, Zack McCall, Alex Thompson, Michael Lagan, Adam McBurney, Peter Cooper, Marcus Rea, Matthew Agnew, Matthew Dalton, Joe Dunleavy, Aaron Hall, Azur Allison, David McCann, Tom Stewart, John McKee*, George Saunderson, Harry Sheridan, Reuben Crothers, Josh Hanlon, Adam McNamee, John Glasgow, James McCormick, Scott Wilson, Charlie Irvine, Joe Hopes, James McNabney

* John McKee (Ulster pathway, contracted at Leinster)

I may have left a few out, open to correction and adding to the list.

So you have four out of thirty thus far in Marcus Rea, David McCann, Tom Stewart and Harry Sheridan deemed capable of becoming professional. Never mind starting on thinking there could be international players in there.

Quite frankly only 30 deemed capable of Ireland U20 is pathetic, a conversion rate of 4 professionals is pathetic, zero internationals is pathetic.

Ok so number of ulster born internationals hasn’t been great but your list and conclusion. is a bit misleading - approx 10 of the 30 you’ve quoted are from the last 2/3 seasons u20 inc 1 (joe hopes) who played a year early and many of which could still make it pro whereas you’re suggesting the count of 4 is as many as will make it (and it should be 5 as John McKee is also pro). In a couple
Of years it’s quite possible that number of 4
Is doubled

[CIMANFOREVER]

[quote=shamalicious post_id=727145 time=<a href="tel:1681554665">1681554665</a> user_id=894]
Surely some of the lads coming through from U20s over the last couple of seasons will make it? Last year's U20s it was all forwards.

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk


Shamy I gave up thinking that about 5 years ago, I'm glad there are people like your good self out there still believing. Since Henderson made his debut 2012, the following 30 Ulster pathway forwards have been capped by Ireland at U20

John Donnan, Conor Joyce, Christopher Taylor, Frankie Taggart, Lorcan Dow, Zack McCall, Alex Thompson, Michael Lagan, Adam McBurney, Peter Cooper, Marcus Rea, Matthew Agnew, Matthew Dalton, Joe Dunleavy, Aaron Hall, Azur Allison, David McCann, Tom Stewart, John McKee*, George Saunderson, Harry Sheridan, Reuben Crothers, Josh Hanlon, Adam McNamee, John Glasgow, James McCormick, Scott Wilson, Charlie Irvine, Joe Hopes, James McNabney

* John McKee (Ulster pathway, contracted at Leinster)

I may have left a few out, open to correction and adding to the list.

So you have four out of thirty thus far in Marcus Rea, David McCann, Tom Stewart and Harry Sheridan deemed capable of becoming professional. Never mind starting on thinking there could be international players in there.

Quite frankly only 30 deemed capable of Ireland U20 is pathetic, a conversion rate of 4 professionals is pathetic, zero internationals is pathetic.

Ok so number of ulster born internationals hasn’t been great but your list and conclusion. is a bit misleading - approx 10 of the 30 you’ve quoted are from the last 2/3 seasons u20 inc 1 (joe hopes) who played a year early and many of which could still make it pro whereas you’re suggesting the count of 4 is as many as will make it (and it should be 5 as John McKee is also pro). In a couple
Of years it’s quite possible that number of 4
Is doubled

Which is the equivalent of 1 season at Leinster

[UlsterNo9]

[quote=shamalicious post_id=727145 time=<a href="tel:1681554665">1681554665</a> user_id=894]
Surely some of the lads coming through from U20s over the last couple of seasons will make it? Last year's U20s it was all forwards.

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk


Shamy I gave up thinking that about 5 years ago, I'm glad there are people like your good self out there still believing. Since Henderson made his debut 2012, the following 30 Ulster pathway forwards have been capped by Ireland at U20

John Donnan, Conor Joyce, Christopher Taylor, Frankie Taggart, Lorcan Dow, Zack McCall, Alex Thompson, Michael Lagan, Adam McBurney, Peter Cooper, Marcus Rea, Matthew Agnew, Matthew Dalton, Joe Dunleavy, Aaron Hall, Azur Allison, David McCann, Tom Stewart, John McKee*, George Saunderson, Harry Sheridan, Reuben Crothers, Josh Hanlon, Adam McNamee, John Glasgow, James McCormick, Scott Wilson, Charlie Irvine, Joe Hopes, James McNabney

* John McKee (Ulster pathway, contracted at Leinster)

I may have left a few out, open to correction and adding to the list.

So you have four out of thirty thus far in Marcus Rea, David McCann, Tom Stewart and Harry Sheridan deemed capable of becoming professional. Never mind starting on thinking there could be international players in there.

Quite frankly only 30 deemed capable of Ireland U20 is pathetic, a conversion rate of 4 professionals is pathetic, zero internationals is pathetic.

Ok so number of ulster born internationals hasn’t been great but your list and conclusion. is a bit misleading - approx 10 of the 30 you’ve quoted are from the last 2/3 seasons u20 inc 1 (joe hopes) who played a year early and many of which could still make it pro whereas you’re suggesting the count of 4 is as many as will make it (and it should be 5 as John McKee is also pro). In a couple
Of years it’s quite possible that number of 4
Is doubled

Yoda I hope you're correct but based on history rather than hope I won't get too excited. Striping it back a total of 30 prospects in 11 years is grim.

Only four deemed capable of becoming professional, I do not include McKee, as he was deemed not good enough by Ulster (same applies to McBurney, as he's no longer with us). McKee was coming through at the same time as Tom Stewart, it was decided we couldn't possibly have two hookers in the same academy year . He was told to prop or feck off.

Gavin Hogg has come in and hopefully builds on stopping the rot. Only 3 forwards in this years Under 20's, only one in McNabney getting any meaningful game time would suggest not. Hogg has now been given more resource to support the pathway programme but that is only recent, why this wasn't in place for years is anyones guess.

I don't think bringing Petrie in from a top of the tree all seeing eye has helped the Academy at all, he doesn't know what to do with it. To be fair his past experience has come from within Scottish rugby who have a terrible youth programme.

[Sue Dename]

So potentially JTA and Milo are being released?
Here is one option, that contractually may be binding.
Last season JTA was signed as TH cover when the signing that was made fell through due to injury.

Ulster had actually signed Conor Carey from Northampton as the 3rd TH, only he did his ACL in his last game for Saints.
I have no knowledge of CC's rehab, fitness or desire to play again.
It would tick the box for an IQ player, but maybe not set the Ravers on fire with excitement.

[Neill_M]

So potentially JTA and Milo are being released?
Here is one option, that contractually may be binding.
Last season JTA was signed as TH cover when the signing that was made fell through due to injury.

Ulster had actually signed Conor Carey from Northampton as the 3rd TH, only he did his ACL in his last game for Saints.
I have no knowledge of CC's rehab, fitness or desire to play again.
It would tick the box for an IQ player, but maybe not set the Ravers on fire with excitement.

According to All dot Rugby which is usually on the ball, he has not played this season.

[Sue Dename]

So potentially JTA and Milo are being released?
Here is one option, that contractually may be binding.
Last season JTA was signed as TH cover when the signing that was made fell through due to injury.

Ulster had actually signed Conor Carey from Northampton as the 3rd TH, only he did his ACL in his last game for Saints.
I have no knowledge of CC's rehab, fitness or desire to play again.
It would tick the box for an IQ player, but maybe not set the Ravers on fire with excitement.

According to All dot Rugby which is usually on the ball, he has not played this season.

It would be a miracle if he played this season after doing his ACL.
He may have retired for all I know.
A contract was signed last year, I don't know for how long, I was just throwing it out there as a possibility

[UlsterNo9]

Kieran Brooke's at Toulon coming to the end of 2 year contract. 16 caps for England, believe he's Irish qualified through his mother having played age grade, last cap 2016. Tight head who can cover loosehead.

[Dave]

Kieran Brooke's at Toulon coming to the end of 2 year contract. 16 caps for England, believe he's Irish qualified have played age grade, last cap 2016. Tight head who can cover loosehead.

Can you actually email this to bryn.cunningham@ulsterrugby.com please?