Any word on the Academy?

[chunky]

Too many squads, talent diluted in the north.

If your not involved in an ulster training squad of some sort then it’s a surprise.

Bring back Ulster schools when it was the best 15 players in the province. No need for u16,u17,u18 and u19. Too many egos being created.


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With respect, it is important to have players in u16 and u17 squads- getting talent into identified and into the system early is the best way to develop the best young players giving them exposure to the best players in the province.

Also- it is the same for Munster and Leinster so why shouldn’t it work with ulster

I'd be inclined to disagree. The early specialization that is currently going on getting kids as young as 13/14 to focus solely on rugby at the expense of other sports is detrimental not only to the players but to the game in general. There are players in Ulster age grade setups that clearly have no future in professional rugby, but they are being told that they might and that if they keep committing to 9-10 months a year of rugby training they just might make it.

Then at 17/18/19 they get spat out of the system and just give up, they are burnt out, they are injured, they are sick of rugby, they lose their social circle and they don't bother anymore. Hence why the player numbers at senior level are falling off a cliff - no one is interested unless they are playing at a high level - to play in a 2nd or 3rd XV is seen as a failure and they have forgotten that playing rugby with your mates is supposed to be fun.

They have no experience in not being the best in the team, in having to struggle, in failure, in learning a new sport - experiences that develop a grit and resilience that stands them in life. Like KOTH says too many egos being created.

The irony is then that they have missed out on the benefits of playing other sports that would give them a better well rounded athletic ability and transferrable skills that would improve their rugby - the GAA player coming to rugby in his early 20s is the prime example.

It's not just rugby, and it's not just Ulster, all sports and regions are guilty - it's an arm races to secure the best young talent and nail them to a single sport as soon as possible, depriving them and other sports of the opportunity to work with their talent for the benefit of the 0.1% who make it and the expense of the 99.9% who don't.

[kingofthehill]

Too many squads, talent diluted in the north.

If your not involved in an ulster training squad of some sort then it’s a surprise.

Bring back Ulster schools when it was the best 15 players in the province. No need for u16,u17,u18 and u19. Too many egos being created.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With respect, it is important to have players in u16 and u17 squads- getting talent into identified and into the system early is the best way to develop the best young players giving them exposure to the best players in the province.

Also- it is the same for Munster and Leinster so why shouldn’t it work with ulster

I'd be inclined to disagree. The early specialization that is currently going on getting kids as young as 13/14 to focus solely on rugby at the expense of other sports is detrimental not only to the players but to the game in general. There are players in Ulster age grade setups that clearly have no future in professional rugby, but they are being told that they might and that if they keep committing to 9-10 months a year of rugby training they just might make it.

Then at 17/18/19 they get spat out of the system and just give up, they are burnt out, they are injured, they are sick of rugby, they lose their social circle and they don't bother anymore. Hence why the player numbers at senior level are falling off a cliff - no one is interested unless they are playing at a high level - to play in a 2nd or 3rd XV is seen as a failure and they have forgotten that playing rugby with your mates is supposed to be fun.

They have no experience in not being the best in the team, in having to struggle, in failure, in learning a new sport - experiences that develop a grit and resilience that stands them in life. Like KOTH says too many egos being created.

The irony is then that they have missed out on the benefits of playing other sports that would give them a better well rounded athletic ability and transferrable skills that would improve their rugby - the GAA player coming to rugby in his early 20s is the prime example.

It's not just rugby, and it's not just Ulster, all sports and regions are guilty - it's an arm races to secure the best young talent and nail them to a single sport as soon as possible, depriving them and other sports of the opportunity to work with their talent for the benefit of the 0.1% who make it and the expense of the 99.9% who don't.

Couldn’t of said it better myself.


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[rumncoke]

Selection early is fine for backs but picking forwards at any age under 18/19 all your looking at is young lads who mature early -- leinster have the benefit of a couple of boarding schools with extreme rugby traditions that possibly practice "podding" 2-3 days a week and the modern rugby team game is based on pods and roles and recycling the ball on 3/4 of the pitch backs are now basically kick chasers or ball catchers very few modern centres can time a pass to the wing while running straight .

Ulster lack the dedication to develop pod rugby at school looking and depending on individuals to forge a break rather than play patient rugby.

[nonplussed]

Too many squads, talent diluted in the north.

If your not involved in an ulster training squad of some sort then it’s a surprise.

Bring back Ulster schools when it was the best 15 players in the province. No need for u16,u17,u18 and u19. Too many egos being created.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With respect, it is important to have players in u16 and u17 squads- getting talent into identified and into the system early is the best way to develop the best young players giving them exposure to the best players in the province.

Also- it is the same for Munster and Leinster so why shouldn’t it work with ulster

I'd be inclined to disagree. The early specialization that is currently going on getting kids as young as 13/14 to focus solely on rugby at the expense of other sports is detrimental not only to the players but to the game in general. There are players in Ulster age grade setups that clearly have no future in professional rugby, but they are being told that they might and that if they keep committing to 9-10 months a year of rugby training they just might make it.

Then at 17/18/19 they get spat out of the system and just give up, they are burnt out, they are injured, they are sick of rugby, they lose their social circle and they don't bother anymore. Hence why the player numbers at senior level are falling off a cliff - no one is interested unless they are playing at a high level - to play in a 2nd or 3rd XV is seen as a failure and they have forgotten that playing rugby with your mates is supposed to be fun.

They have no experience in not being the best in the team, in having to struggle, in failure, in learning a new sport - experiences that develop a grit and resilience that stands them in life. Like KOTH says too many egos being created.

The irony is then that they have missed out on the benefits of playing other sports that would give them a better well rounded athletic ability and transferrable skills that would improve their rugby - the GAA player coming to rugby in his early 20s is the prime example.

It's not just rugby, and it's not just Ulster, all sports and regions are guilty - it's an arm races to secure the best young talent and nail them to a single sport as soon as possible, depriving them and other sports of the opportunity to work with their talent for the benefit of the 0.1% who make it and the expense of the 99.9% who don't.

Absolutely spot on ! The joy of playing sport is drilled out of these lads in many cases. I am aware of at least 2 lads in the current underage system who are ready to walk and just play the game they love with their pals. Thats damning on a system that puts the machine above the individual.

[rumncoke]

In that case they wouldn’t make any way the road to the top requires a singleness of purpose and a love of the game .

Some prefer the social game — fine nothing wrong with that but they’ll never make it as a professional

[Big-al]

I agree there. No surprise to see that there is a strong correlation between top class schools coaches and future professionals at that school

[solidarity]

"Absolutely spot on ! The joy of playing sport is drilled out of these lads in many cases. I am aware of at least 2 lads in the current underage system who are ready to walk and just play the game they love with their pals. Thats damning on a system that puts the machine above the individual."

I wouldn't care if Ulster never won another match if the prize is doubling or tripling the number of lads playing for fun at school and after, and coninuing to play until they are forty!

[ljsulster]

A lot of it isn’t that the joy is lost, it’s that once the players leave school they’ve only played school so don’t have an affiliation with a club so they don’t feel like joining a club.
There needs to be more emphasis on getting school players to play the odd midweek or weekend game for the local so they feel welcome and accepted if they decide to join a club post school

[HammerTime]

A lot of it isn’t that the joy is lost, it’s that once the players leave school they’ve only played school so don’t have an affiliation with a club so they don’t feel like joining a club.
There needs to be more emphasis on getting school players to play the odd midweek or weekend game for the local so they feel welcome and accepted if they decide to join a club post school

Absolutely, a couple of breaks in the playing calendar to get allocated a club to go play for. Players from the same school being dished out to different clubs for a bit of rivalry.

[DogsMutts]

Ulster schools coaching and rugby resources compared to Leinster are miles behind. Top schools like clongowes have a rugby supplement charge for pupils wishing to play performance rugby of 3-5k a year. Mummy and daddy see this as a way into Leinster and also keep up with the O’Jones

[HammerTime]

We should have one of the best youth systems about by now considering we have had a decade now with a free stadium which is a big money generator compared to before. And unlike others who only rent/are in big debt. Instead, we've blown the loot on expensive journeymen and still have gotten nowhere.

[kingofthehill]

We should have one of the best youth systems about by now considering we have had a decade now with a free stadium which is a big money generator compared to before. And unlike others who only rent/are in big debt. Instead, we've blown the loot on expensive journeymen and still have gotten nowhere.

The significance of the Academy in Leinster is the same as Ulsters. It’s about what happens before.

Consider the substantial investments pouring into the Dublin schools, albeit not from Leinster itself.

The Dublin schools boast well-compensated coaches who attract top-tier coaching talent. A striking contrast arises when comparing the earnings of Belfast’s 1st XV coaches to Dublin’s U13 coaches. While one earns significantly below the minimum wage, the other enjoys a generous income.

This dichotomy extends to the realm of extracurricular teachers in Ulster, where their numbers are dwindling. This is only going to get worse.


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[DogsMutts]

We should have one of the best youth systems about by now considering we have had a decade now with a free stadium which is a big money generator compared to before. And unlike others who only rent/are in big debt. Instead, we've blown the loot on expensive journeymen and still have gotten nowhere.

The significance of the Academy in Leinster is the same as Ulsters. It’s about what happens before.

Consider the substantial investments pouring into the Dublin schools, albeit not from Leinster itself.

The Dublin schools boast well-compensated coaches who attract top-tier coaching talent. A striking contrast arises when comparing the earnings of Belfast’s 1st XV coaches to Dublin’s U13 coaches. While one earns significantly below the minimum wage, the other enjoys a generous income.

This dichotomy extends to the realm of extracurricular teachers in Ulster, where their numbers are dwindling. This is only going to get worse.


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Absolutely, school coaches from Ulster are moving south too.If Ulster won’t do it, which they aren’t, clubs and schools will need to invest in upskilling coaches. Sadly, whilst this is always in the development plan it is rarely started and gets pushed on another season. Clubs and schools are happy if they get a name against a team and are often left verburdened with administration and simply getting teams out never mind keep the rugby viable….

[HammerTime]

We should have one of the best youth systems about by now considering we have had a decade now with a free stadium which is a big money generator compared to before. And unlike others who only rent/are in big debt. Instead, we've blown the loot on expensive journeymen and still have gotten nowhere.

The significance of the Academy in Leinster is the same as Ulsters. It’s about what happens before.

Consider the substantial investments pouring into the Dublin schools, albeit not from Leinster itself.

The Dublin schools boast well-compensated coaches who attract top-tier coaching talent. A striking contrast arises when comparing the earnings of Belfast’s 1st XV coaches to Dublin’s U13 coaches. While one earns significantly below the minimum wage, the other enjoys a generous income.

This dichotomy extends to the realm of extracurricular teachers in Ulster, where their numbers are dwindling. This is only going to get worse.


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Yes I'm talking about schools as well why aren't UR heavily involved in programs/coaching/guidance and of course dishing out a few bob/grants? Schools seem to be left to their own devices.

[Tap+Go]

We should have one of the best youth systems about by now considering we have had a decade now with a free stadium which is a big money generator compared to before. And unlike others who only rent/are in big debt. Instead, we've blown the loot on expensive journeymen and still have gotten nowhere.

The significance of the Academy in Leinster is the same as Ulsters. It’s about what happens before.

Consider the substantial investments pouring into the Dublin schools, albeit not from Leinster itself.

The Dublin schools boast well-compensated coaches who attract top-tier coaching talent. A striking contrast arises when comparing the earnings of Belfast’s 1st XV coaches to Dublin’s U13 coaches. While one earns significantly below the minimum wage, the other enjoys a generous income.

This dichotomy extends to the realm of extracurricular teachers in Ulster, where their numbers are dwindling. This is only going to get worse.


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Why we’ll prob see more & more Academy players from elsewhere.
Cheap route for Ulster as no investment needed and can use the new Queens link up as a way to attract in terms of uni too. Brigg (Blackrock / Leinster) & Walker (Hartpury / Saracens) will no doubt have had quality underage coaching along the way.
Munster & Connacht also taking plenty from Leinster - think U20 props Ronan Foxe & George Hadden are joining Munster and Connacht have 4 from Leinster in their 1st year academy intake announced James Nicholson (back 3), Matthew Victory (hooker), Finn Treacy (centre) Sean Naughton (out half)