Contract Situation

[Jetstream]

In articles I see Cecil Watson's name appearing as far back as 2007. Loads of pictures of Cecil in his blazer as well!

In 2003 I saw "The Ulster side, coached by Allen Clarke and managed by Cecil Watson, " - is that the same guy.

Who exactly is he and how or why a 20+ year involvement?

Watson is the father of Winker Watson of t.v. fame. He is a long time Ashton of Malone and his dead hand has been dragging Ulster down for decades. When the Provinces became professional, the other 3 immediately booted out the blazerati and installed professionals to run them. At Ulster, Watson and his crew of deadbeats announced that they would continue to run Ulster by committee. They often had nice overseas trips with the team and basically are anachronisms. They need to go.

I am aware that all ex Presidents ( there must be 20 or 30) got free booze at Ravenhill at every match. I assume this is continuing. It is nice to see spectator's admission money going down the throats of the blazers.
Just look at the official photograph on Ulster Rugby site of some 50 blazers. It is like something from the 1900's

[Sue Dename]

There is no way this is all due to the unexpected loss of income from one game. Are we really living that hand to mouth, where is any long term planning and contingency. Big budget NIQs should never have been considered if we were that close to the wire financially. It all suggests financial disfunction between Belfast and Dublin, and I wonder between Nucifora and Humph.

If not managed with a degree of competence we could be in a vicious cycle of reduced performance, less knockout games, falling attendances, reduced income.

As for the blazers, frankly anyone on a committee to do with the pro game should be on a full time contract, and if that means the majority of the committee is based in Dublin I would have no problem with that. It should also never have 11 people, utterly ridiculous.

Some of those names have been round UR for years.... How accountable are they really? Maybe that's the problem. They've presided over a shameful chapter of UR- and that's saying something

There are names on that list that appointed Shane Logan in 2009.

Who?

Cecil Watson for starters. He announced Logan's arrival.

He’s a tosser, but a dangerous one.

[horslips]

Looking at some of the other names on the management committee quite a few have been kicking about for years. Retire from the bank or public sector and pick up a nice little number in a blazer.
Perhaps our issue isnt first up with coaches and CEO's. The structure at the top has failed, not fit for the modern era and grossly incompetent. As long as it remains there will continue to be problems that no CEO or coach or DoR can ever fix, always being doomed to be dragged ever downwards.#
#BlazersoutofUR

[Jetstream]

Looking at some of the other names on the management committee quite a few have been kicking about for years. Retire from the bank or public sector and pick up a nice little number in a blazer.
Perhaps our issue isnt first up with coaches and CEO's. The structure at the top has failed, not fit for the modern era and grossly incompetent. As long as it remains there will continue to be problems that no CEO or coach or DoR can ever fix, always being doomed to be dragged ever downwards.#
#BlazersoutofUR

Totally male dominated as well.
I stood behind two prominent Ulster Blazers at the airport in Paris after the famous match that was cancelled due to adverse weather. They had more luggage( all emblazoned with IRFU tabs) than you would need for a month in the Himalayas.
I eavesdropped the conversation which ran along the lines of " pity the match was cancelled but a great decision to go ahead with the post match banquet".

[CIMANFOREVER]

Pigs troughs and truffles

[rumncoke]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

[coachno7]

Long time lurker on site having read the ulster accounts.The discrepancy between last season and previous players wages is £2.4 m.Vermeulan obviously some of that money but where has the rest gone.With all these committee men does anyone ask any questions

[Jetstream]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

There are lots of good club blazers, I am talking about the hangers on. Did you know that anyone that is on A Committee at Ravenhill is entitled to an international match ticket entitlement(they pay for them I admit) of 2 tickets per match. The more Committees you are on the more tickets you get, I understand. A nice wee perk. You could be on e2 committees and get 4 tickets per match

[thecrouch]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

Nobody is talking about the blazers at a local club rumncoke.

As you say, the blazer types tend to be those who put in the hard yards for clubs through volunteering, be that doing the gate, organising the changing rooms, sorting out meals, keeping the books, sorting out sponsors etc etc.

These are great skills to have a local club, but these are not what should be overseeing the elite side of the game in the province. This is a professional sport now, and it should be run by professionals. We cannot have this weird model of the pro game being handled by amateurs.

Those overseeing the pro game need to know how to manage a professional squad. They need to know how to demand standards. They need to know what coaches should be appointed and what coaches should be let go. They need to know how to ask the really hard questions about player contracts. They need to be able to ask the DoR / head coach or whoever else to explain themselves, and be competent enough to call out bullshit.

This is the only way accountability happens.

As far as I'm concerned, pro rugby is 30 years old now. There are enough professionals out there that no amateurs should be involved in any part of the hierarchy of the pro-side of the game in Ulster.

[Jetstream]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

Nobody is talking about the blazers at a local club rumncoke.

As you say, the blazer types tend to be those who put in the hard yards for clubs through volunteering, be that doing the gate, organising the changing rooms, sorting out meals, keeping the books, sorting out sponsors etc etc.

These are great skills to have a local club, but these are not what should be overseeing the elite side of the game in the province. This is a professional sport now, and it should be run by professionals. We cannot have this weird model of the pro game being handled by amateurs.

Those overseeing the pro game need to know how to manage a professional squad. They need to know how to demand standards. They need to know what coaches should be appointed and what coaches should be let go. They need to know how to ask the really hard questions about player contracts. They need to be able to ask the DoR / head coach or whoever else to explain themselves, and be competent enough to call out bullshit.

This is the only way accountability happens.

As far as I'm concerned, pro rugby is 30 years old now. There are enough professionals out there that no amateurs should be involved in any part of the hierarchy of the pro-side of the game in Ulster.

Excellent words Mr Crouch.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

In articles I see Cecil Watson's name appearing as far back as 2007. Loads of pictures of Cecil in his blazer as well!

In 2003 I saw "The Ulster side, coached by Allen Clarke and managed by Cecil Watson, " - is that the same guy.

Who exactly is he and how or why a 20+ year involvement?

Watson is the father of Winker Watson of t.v. fame. He is a long time Ashton of Malone and his dead hand has been dragging Ulster down for decades. When the Provinces became professional, the other 3 immediately booted out the blazerati and installed professionals to run them. At Ulster, Watson and his crew of deadbeats announced that they would continue to run Ulster by committee. They often had nice overseas trips with the team and basically are anachronisms. They need to go.

I am aware that all ex Presidents ( there must be 20 or 30) got free booze at Ravenhill at every match. I assume this is continuing. It is nice to see spectator's admission money going down the throats of the blazers.

I've had the misfortune to be invited to watch a couple of matches from the Directors Box at Ravers and partake of pre-match food. The food was free of charge as part of my invitation, but as a season ticket holder, the match wasn't free.

I say "the misfortune" as, 1 the food wasn't great and 2, I i was frowned upon for getting to my feet and guldering during the match and I would much have preferred to be on the terrace.

One thing I will say though in response to the above comment about free booze, is that in my experience, it doesnt happen. Free meal yes, but booze had to be paid for by everyone, whether blazer or guest, although I and another guest were offered drinks by a couple of blazers which were paid for by them - and for the record, I declined the offers, simply because I was driving and have a simple "no drink if driving" policy even if the driving may be a couple of hours after the drinks.

In my experience some of the blazers are very quick to show hospitality at their own expense, albeit they no doubt do get perks which are probably no longer justifiable in a professional set up. I also have no doubt that some blazers remain in post for their own personal gratification and should have been shown the door years ago.

BTW, there is also one member of the committee under discussion who was and is a much respected member of this forum, albeit I don't recollect him posting mich in the past couple of years, but when he did in the past, his words carried a lot of weight.

Edit: I should add that i am unsure if free booze was a perk of post-match hospitality shown to visiting players staff and blazers, as I was never party to those, other than when invited or we gatecrashed such events at away matches, when I gratefully partook of generous hospitlaity by our opponents of the night, so I suppose the "free booze" thing probably does apply to post match hospitality

[Dave]

BTW, there is also one member of the committee under discussion who was and is a much respected member of this forum, albeit I don't recollect him posting mich in the past couple of years, but when he did in the past, his words carried a lot of weight.

Baggy, plz come back.

[rumncoke]

There maybe some booze left in the changing rooms for after the match --but everything thereafter would i assume be paid for by the players recognition of the fact that from monday to match end, booze is meant to be off the menu. Booze and training don't mix too well.

I'm sure there is only one F in Ferris went down a treat in the directors box.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

BTW, there is also one member of the committee under discussion who was and is a much respected member of this forum, albeit I don't recollect him posting mich in the past couple of years, but when he did in the past, his words carried a lot of weight.

Baggy, plz come back.

It ain't Baggy, (I said "much respected" ) but the two are well known to one another.

[Dave]

BTW, there is also one member of the committee under discussion who was and is a much respected member of this forum, albeit I don't recollect him posting mich in the past couple of years, but when he did in the past, his words carried a lot of weight.

Baggy, plz come back.

It ain't Baggy, (I said "much respected" ) but the two are well known to one another.

It's Russ then...