Contract Situation

[CIMANFOREVER]

So should they be absolved of this shyteshow?
Is it selective or collective blame given it's a committee?
Either way culpability runs deep- only a lunatic would fail to recognise that this committee has presided incompetently over/ steered UR through what could be only be described as a prolonged period of cumulative deterioration, embarrassment and on/ off pitch disasters

[horslips]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

Rum with all due respect I would argue that clubs exist in spite of Blazers and not because of them. Of course there are a good number who do all the voluntary things you mention, but it my experience even they can become a drag on the club, often by refusing to accept or acknowledge change.
I was a member of a junior club for many years and first hand saw what these dinosaurs were doing to its success. we parted ways some years ago but I am pleased that fresh blood did arrive both on the playing front and via the youth/mini set up. The results have transformed the club in question. It is successful on the pitch and off and as far as I can see the old guard no longer actively dragging it down. I even recall those very same blazers dismissing my pointing out that their chosen entertaiments program was turning it into a UVF drinking club

[horslips]

Being a well respected member of this forum or not still doesnt excuse the s***show that UR has turned into. It s a matter of collective responsibility. I doubt that if I knew who this member was I would feel inclined to assign them respected status

[horslips]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

Nobody is talking about the blazers at a local club rumncoke.

As you say, the blazer types tend to be those who put in the hard yards for clubs through volunteering, be that doing the gate, organising the changing rooms, sorting out meals, keeping the books, sorting out sponsors etc etc.

These are great skills to have a local club, but these are not what should be overseeing the elite side of the game in the province. This is a professional sport now, and it should be run by professionals. We cannot have this weird model of the pro game being handled by amateurs.

Those overseeing the pro game need to know how to manage a professional squad. They need to know how to demand standards. They need to know what coaches should be appointed and what coaches should be let go. They need to know how to ask the really hard questions about player contracts. They need to be able to ask the DoR / head coach or whoever else to explain themselves, and be competent enough to call out bullshit.

This is the only way accountability happens.

As far as I'm concerned, pro rugby is 30 years old now. There are enough professionals out there that no amateurs should be involved in any part of the hierarchy of the pro-side of the game in Ulster.

Crouchy has it in a nutshell - this is a substantial professional sports business, no place for rank amateurs. Just because you held a senior banking job, or were something in the civil service doesnt mean you are qualified to manage pro sports.
The former were seen to be a real bunch of shyters during the financial crisis and the latter are now worse than useless, more aptly called the incompetent rather than civil service. FFS they cant even minute meetings to hold the local politicians to account

[Lurgan Lad]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

Nobody is talking about the blazers at a local club rumncoke.

As you say, the blazer types tend to be those who put in the hard yards for clubs through volunteering, be that doing the gate, organising the changing rooms, sorting out meals, keeping the books, sorting out sponsors etc etc.

These are great skills to have a local club, but these are not what should be overseeing the elite side of the game in the province. This is a professional sport now, and it should be run by professionals. We cannot have this weird model of the pro game being handled by amateurs.

Those overseeing the pro game need to know how to manage a professional squad. They need to know how to demand standards. They need to know what coaches should be appointed and what coaches should be let go. They need to know how to ask the really hard questions about player contracts. They need to be able to ask the DoR / head coach or whoever else to explain themselves, and be competent enough to call out bullshit.

This is the only way accountability happens.

As far as I'm concerned, pro rugby is 30 years old now. There are enough professionals out there that no amateurs should be involved in any part of the hierarchy of the pro-side of the game in Ulster.

Crouchy has it in a nutshell - this is a substantial professional sports business, no place for rank amateurs. Just because you held a senior banking job, or were something in the civil service doesnt mean you are qualified to manage pro sports.
The former were seen to be a real bunch of shyters during the financial crisis and the latter are now worse than useless, more aptly called the incompetent rather than civil service. FFS they cant even minute meetings to hold the local politicians to account

The question is is anyone going to fix this idiotic setup. It is the IRFU in Dublin's fault, they have allowed this shambles to go on for way too long. They can laugh at what has went on up here, but it is purely of their making. I'm hopeful Humph will fix it.

[Lurgan Lad]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

Rum with all due respect I would argue that clubs exist in spite of Blazers and not because of them. Of course there are a good number who do all the voluntary things you mention, but it my experience even they can become a drag on the club, often by refusing to accept or acknowledge change.
I was a member of a junior club for many years and first hand saw what these dinosaurs were doing to its success. we parted ways some years ago but I am pleased that fresh blood did arrive both on the playing front and via the youth/mini set up. The results have transformed the club in question. It is successful on the pitch and off and as far as I can see the old guard no longer actively dragging it down. I even recall those very same blazers dismissing my pointing out that their chosen entertaiments program was turning it into a UVF drinking club

+1. My perspective is that as people get older typically they have more disposable income, less interest in actually doing things themselves, and sometimes egos that don't help. How successful the club is will massively depend on ensuring that people are put in the position that allows them to add the most value to the club as possible, while ensuring that some destroy as little value in the club as possible. In other words in all age groups there are a majority that can be great assets to the club, and some that are a danger.

[solidarity]

I hear that, when it rains at Ravenspan, the folks in the Blazers' box get wet while most of the rest of the main stand stay dry. Any truth in it?

[Paulshieldsfanclub]

Anyone else heard if Petrie leaving at the end of the season? Chat he applied for the vacant Scotland CEO post..

[Big-al]

I’m sure he applied, we’re only a stepping stone for his career after all. Same reason Humph left Ulster for Gloucester to improve his CV, after getting turned down for the Irish DOR.

[Jetstream]

The solution to the blazer problem is quite simple. Amateur and professional rugby should be totally divorced from each other Let the blazers continue to play happy families with club rugby. But they should have zero input in the professional game
As for female representation on the existing rugby committees the only occasion ladies will get near the committee room is to make the tea.
Perhaps some of the blazers should go down to Inishowen Rugby club in North Donegal which is an excellent run club with a lady President .

[nonplussed]

The solution to the blazer problem is quite simple. Amateur and professional rugby should be totally divorced from each other Let the blazers continue to play happy families with club rugby. But they should have zero input in the professional game
As for female representation on the existing rugby committees the only occasion ladies will get near the committee room is to make the tea.
Perhaps some of the blazers should go down to Inishowen Rugby club in North Donegal which is an excellent run club with a lady President .

a force of nature and wonderful lady.

[chunky]

The solution to the blazer problem is quite simple. Amateur and professional rugby should be totally divorced from each other Let the blazers continue to play happy families with club rugby. But they should have zero input in the professional game
As for female representation on the existing rugby committees the only occasion ladies will get near the committee room is to make the tea.
Perhaps some of the blazers should go down to Inishowen Rugby club in North Donegal which is an excellent run club with a lady President .

You make a great point about Inishowen - Anne does a fantastic job down there and is a fantastic ambassador for the game.

[UlsterAreBrill]

Anyone else heard if Petrie leaving at the end of the season? Chat he applied for the vacant Scotland CEO post..

Unless there’s some KPI’s we’re missing it’s not like he’s done a stellar job here.

[flatpass]

I hear that, when it rains at Ravenspan, the folks in the Blazers' box get wet while most of the rest of the main stand stay dry. Any truth in it?

Yes it’s true. Quite enjoyable

[allezlesverres]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

Rum with all due respect I would argue that clubs exist in spite of Blazers and not because of them. Of course there are a good number who do all the voluntary things you mention, but it my experience even they can become a drag on the club, often by refusing to accept or acknowledge change.
I was a member of a junior club for many years and first hand saw what these dinosaurs were doing to its success. we parted ways some years ago but I am pleased that fresh blood did arrive both on the playing front and via the youth/mini set up. The results have transformed the club in question. It is successful on the pitch and off and as far as I can see the old guard no longer actively dragging it down. I even recall those very same blazers dismissing my pointing out that their chosen entertaiments program was turning it into a UVF drinking club

Had to reactivate my account to back up Rum here. I am actually a blazer in another sport and I can tell you with hand on heart it's a massive pain in the proverbial and it's absolutely a labour of love. I don't know anybody in the UR blazers but I bet they're all corporate finance banking types and I bet they absolutely torture their business connections to benefit UR. They will use up favours owed to them so that UR can benefit. The idea that a season ticket or preferential international tickets is a perk is laughable. These guys could be spending their time on paid consultancies or non exec posts getting proper remuneration instead of spending their time at UR as effectively volunteers.

I very much doubt any accountants are sticking their oar in to do team selections. They'll be bean counting what they can afford and listening to others who have an idea of who the right coaches/players are. Rum absolutely has the right of this one.

And this idea that because we are professional we should have paid posts to replace the blazers is total nonsense. Have you any concept of what that costs? UR is far too small to justify that expenditure. There's lots of issues at UR and hey maybe some blazers contribute better than others but walk a mile in their shoes before you slabber. None of them are on a gravy train I can say that with absolute confidence.