Contract Situation

[rumncoke]

I'd love know who you think should be in charge

Because i know of one club that by passed its blazers spent a fortune and then had to sell most of the assets of the club

Every business has its good directors and its bad directors and the wisdom of the old bull is better than than that of the young bull

the young bull said lets run down the hill and s-ag a cow and the old bull said better to walk down and s-ag the herd.

[Jetstream]

But for the" blazers " most rugby clubs would cease to exist most are volunteers unpaid who devote many hours to enable the game to exist at club level -- many are competent networkers but there are a few who are there for the ego trip.

Post matches dinners are either paid for in advance or those providing the dinner would expect payment if the meal was cancelled - the food s bought, the hall hired like wise the staff . You''ve broken the contract not the organisation providing the meal.

Try and get your money back for a cancelled wedding-- most hotels etc want money up front.

My father was a club blazer for many years -- he was well out of pocket funds for the club, attending dinners ( which he paid for buying drinks he paid for going on tours he had to pay for. He enjoyed it but it cost him money never mind the -- "the we need (s )"which cost time and money

Of course "blazers" are going to be male dominated female club game playing parasites are a recent addition previously they were the wags in the kitchen there for attention and the rub of glory and free drink. ( a slightly sexist view with a foundation of truth) ie while they had an in put into clubs it was basically time and not financial and i would assume to some extent it is still true ie they take advantage of the club assets without having to contribute to their provision .( the Income from membership fees hardly covers the overheads never mind the weekly running costs.)

Rum with all due respect I would argue that clubs exist in spite of Blazers and not because of them. Of course there are a good number who do all the voluntary things you mention, but it my experience even they can become a drag on the club, often by refusing to accept or acknowledge change.
I was a member of a junior club for many years and first hand saw what these dinosaurs were doing to its success. we parted ways some years ago but I am pleased that fresh blood did arrive both on the playing front and via the youth/mini set up. The results have transformed the club in question. It is successful on the pitch and off and as far as I can see the old guard no longer actively dragging it down. I even recall those very same blazers dismissing my pointing out that their chosen entertaiments program was turning it into a UVF drinking club

Had to reactivate my account to back up Rum here. I am actually a blazer in another sport and I can tell you with hand on heart it's a massive pain in the proverbial and it's absolutely a labour of love. I don't know anybody in the UR blazers but I bet they're all corporate finance banking types and I bet they absolutely torture their business connections to benefit UR. They will use up favours owed to them so that UR can benefit. The idea that a season ticket or preferential international tickets is a perk is laughable. These guys could be spending their time on paid consultancies or non exec posts getting proper remuneration instead of spending their time at UR as effectively volunteers.

I very much doubt any accountants are sticking their oar in to do team selections. They'll be bean counting what they can afford and listening to others who have an idea of who the right coaches/players are. Rum absolutely has the right of this one.

And this idea that because we are professional we should have paid posts to replace the blazers is total nonsense. Have you any concept of what that costs? UR is far too small to justify that expenditure. There's lots of issues at UR and hey maybe some blazers contribute better than others but walk a mile in their shoes before you slabber. None of them are on a gravy train I can say that with absolute confidence.

Go visit the Ulster website. Look at the photograph of some 48 Blazers with an average age of 70+. Put your hand on your heart and say " this is the future of Ulster Rugby". Do we need 48 of them? Oh congratulations to Ulster Rugby for putting a token female in the group.
Rumn's comments about good and bad directors is gibberish. There are good and bad blazers as well. As for old and young bulls. It's not a shaggin contest.

[Big-al]

And a bull can only shag one cow a day anyway, so that’s a moot point from Rum.

If there is 48 ‘blazers’ then that is ridiculous.

[allezlesverres]

Go visit the Ulster website. Look at the photograph of some 48 Blazers with an average age of 70+. Put your hand on your heart and say " this is the future of Ulster Rugby". Do we need 48 of them? Oh congratulations to Ulster Rugby for putting a token female in the group.
Rumn's comments about good and bad directors is gibberish. There are good and bad blazers as well. As for old and young bulls. It's not a shaggin contest.

Are half of them not club representatives? If so that seems about the right size. Maybe a bit bloated but not massively. The age profile is common as it's something only retired people have time for. I honestly can't see how the blazers are at the heart of URs problems (which I think are overstated anyway - we beat racing and leinster this year and should finish pretty well in the URC). My personal view is there's a lack of buy in/professionalism from a lot of the young players. That's a coaching issue. Also the present coaching ticket doesn't seem to be improving attack, defence, skills, scrums or line outs. That's pretty much the entire game we are regressing at. We have an OK squad (not great but definitely above average in URC), and we should be getting more out of it. Coaching clear out required.

[TheBoat]

Blazers are fine for amateur associations. There should be zero input from any of them in the running of a modern pro club.

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[jean valjean]

Has anyone any knowledge that the so called 48 blazers have any input to the running of the professional side of things? Surely that is what the professional game board is for? The rest are just club men who have more than likely worked for many years at their own amateur clubs and have been put forward to represent the amateur game. Ulster is a branch of the irfu and manages the amateur game. The other provinces likely have as many, except they separate the professional game better and don't go posting team style photos of the branch members.

[rumncoke]

"Ulster Rugby" as some recognise covers all aspects of the game in the 9 counties of Ulster- Schools - Club and Professional Male and Female from the registration , eligibility of players for clubs and games , discipline, club conduct home and away the blazers overview the lot by committees to avoid the effect of vested interests . they are volunteers not paid professionals with decisions being decided by precedent rather than gut.


The professional game is managed by those paid to manage it not by blazers whose only recognition for the work they do is a seat in the stand and a drink in a select bar -- which enables them to avoid confrontation with those who think they know everything .

[horslips]

Has anyone any knowledge that the so called 48 blazers have any input to the running of the professional side of things? Surely that is what the professional game board is for? The rest are just club men who have more than likely worked for many years at their own amateur clubs and have been put forward to represent the amateur game. Ulster is a branch of the irfu and manages the amateur game. The other provinces likely have as many, except they separate the professional game better and don't go posting team style photos of the branch members.

Well according to the articles of association for UR which I did find online the answer does appear to be yes. It would seem that the Management Committee oversees the Professional Game Board though the articles themselves are not too explicit on the precise responsibilities of each committee. The reason I raised blazers was quite simply an attempt to uncover whole has management responsibility in UR. For example in the face of a fairly lacklustre 1st term who decided yes good man Dan have another 2 or 3 years. When things go as badly awry as they did a few weeks ago who is holding the entire team (players and coaches) to account. I agree that a lot of the blazers are simply just club men and not particularly involved in the pro side. However the 2 aforementioned committees are clearly heavily involved.
As others have said this is pro sport and I dont give a stuff how senior you were in the bank or public sector 20 years ago I think its highly unlikely that you have the skill set to actively run professional sports. You only have to flick through the annual report to see that many of these guys have probably been retired for 10 -20 years. Even in the first quarter of the 21st century a lot has changed, nothing stands still - except possibly a blazer

[Jetstream]

Go visit the Ulster website. Look at the photograph of some 48 Blazers with an average age of 70+. Put your hand on your heart and say " this is the future of Ulster Rugby". Do we need 48 of them? Oh congratulations to Ulster Rugby for putting a token female in the group.
Rumn's comments about good and bad directors is gibberish. There are good and bad blazers as well. As for old and young bulls. It's not a shaggin contest.

Are half of them not club representatives? If so that seems about the right size. Maybe a bit bloated but not massively. The age profile is common as it's something only retired people have time for. I honestly can't see how the blazers are at the heart of URs problems (which I think are overstated anyway - we beat racing and leinster this year and should finish pretty well in the URC). My personal view is there's a lack of buy in/professionalism from a lot of the young players. That's a coaching issue. Also the present coaching ticket doesn't seem to be improving attack, defence, skills, scrums or line outs. That's pretty much the entire game we are regressing at. We have an OK squad (not great but definitely above average in URC), and we should be getting more out of it. Coaching clear out required.

No,they are not club reps. A few may double up in that role. Do you seriously believe a club rep. would buy a blazer just to attend Ravenhill meetings? There are 48 blazers there. About 10 years ago Enniskillen hosted a junior inter provincial game against Connacht. A great achievement for the club. They could not get a single blazer to drive down the road to represent the Ulster Branch. Utterly shameful.

[coachno7]

Who hires the CEO and the coaches,is it the same people who have should have sacked the CEO after the pitch debacle and making a fool of himself and Ulster Rugby.Can nobody make any hard decisions or is it too many people involved to call.Mismanagement thru player contracts,hiring a defence coach we got rid of years ago.Looking after the old boys.

[Lurgan Lad]

Who hires the CEO and the coaches,is it the same people who have should have sacked the CEO after the pitch debacle and making a fool of himself and Ulster Rugby.Can nobody make any hard decisions or is it too many people involved to call.Mismanagement thru player contracts,hiring a defence coach we got rid of years ago.Looking after the old boys.

Really good question, IRFU Dublin you would imagine has final say on everything, so why didn't they sack him? Why didn't they get rid of all the blazers from the professional side at UR? Bottom line is it is ultimately the people at the top in Dublin who are to blame for the shambles at Ulster Rugby, in terms of structure, people hired, and contract extensions.

[Cap'n Grumpy]

BTW, there is also one member of the committee under discussion who was and is a much respected member of this forum, albeit I don't recollect him posting mich in the past couple of years, but when he did in the past, his words carried a lot of weight.

Baggy, plz come back.

It ain't Baggy, (I said "much respected" ) but the two are well known to one another.

It's Russ then...

Which part of "respected" don't ya understand?

[Dave]

BTW, there is also one member of the committee under discussion who was and is a much respected member of this forum, albeit I don't recollect him posting mich in the past couple of years, but when he did in the past, his words carried a lot of weight.

Baggy, plz come back.

It ain't Baggy, (I said "much respected" ) but the two are well known to one another.

It's Russ then...

Which part of "respected" don't ya understand?

R.E.S.P.E.C.T ? Ok I'll find out what it means to you, I suppose.

[Bart S]

Baggy, plz come back.

It ain't Baggy, (I said "much respected" ) but the two are well known to one another.

It's Russ then...

Which part of "respected" don't ya understand?

R.E.S.P.E.C.T ? Ok I'll find out what it means to you, I suppose.

I think you two should take this offline and discuss it in person at an away game in Northampton.

[Lurgan Lad]

Can someone help me out, load of questions here but not sure splitting it into different posts would be beneficial. So I have something like 18 committees although I might be a few out (and out one or two in the numbers) as follows.

Committee Amateurs Employees
Branch Committee
Club Committee 5 0
Clubs Committee Loads 0
Disciplinary Committee 18 0
Women's Committee 2 0
Schools Committee 2 0
High School Committee 2 0
Youth Committee 2 0
Primary Schools Mini Rugby Committee 2 0
Club Mini Rugby Committee 1 0
Members of IRFU Committee 4 0
Competitions Management Committee 13 0
Management Committee 14 Petrie
Finance Committee 5 Petrie & A Robinson
Commercial & Marketing Committee 7 Petrie & D Kelly
Rugby Committee 14 Petrie
Professional Game Board 6 McFarland, Cunningham, Petrie
Development Committee 7 Petrie, F Thompson, D Johnston, M Holmes, A Robinson

I'm assuming down to Competitions Management Committee is all about the amateur game, and those below are either professional and amateur, or both? Is there a Club Committee and a Clubs Committee, or is that a typo?
If we have a finance committee, and A Robinson is an employee with the title Head of Finance and Operations, why are they not the chair of this committee?
If we have a Commercial & Marketing Committee, and D Kelly is Senior Marketing Manager, why are they not the chair of this committee?
If we have a Development Committee, and C Webster is the Head of Rugby Development, why are they not the chair of this committee? Is A Robinson the same person who is Head of Finance & Operations?
If we have a Professional Game Board, and Bryn Cunningham is Head of Rugby Operations and Recruitment, why does he not chair this committee?
Is Gavin Hogg still head of the academy, his name doesn't appear to be listed on the staff list?

I'm sure I've more questions, but that is enough to start for anyone that has insight! Thanks.