Ulster's finances

[Dave]

Who do ROI pay tax to?

[Bobbievee]

https://www.the42.ie/irfu-national-cont ... 7-Apr2024/

You have to scroll it down slowly to read the article but it can be done. Explains the funding system pretty well.

Ultimately Leinster have weaponised their natural advantages brilliantly. A couple of things are very clear:

The privately funded Leinster school system is an advantage no other province will ever likely match.

Secondly…..we are likely never going to attract any player north that has a reasonable chance of a pro contract/int selection down south….the 10yr tax refund doesn’t apply in NI. Realistically you’d be talking hundreds of thousands of euros given up within 3/4yrs Players wouldn’t want to give that up. It’s very rarely acknowledged but don’t tell me it isn’t a huge factor.

Many thanks for this. Yes you can read it behind the paywall. And reassuring that D4 is at least alive to the issues surrounding the other 3 provinces and the proposal for " part funding" central contracts..
It leaves the Ulster problem starkly illustrated. How did we move from 7/8 on the international team ( who would have been on central contracts at the time) to 1 ......and maybe soon none?

This is not D4s fault . It is Ulsters..

[Big-al]

https://www.the42.ie/irfu-national-cont ... 7-Apr2024/

You have to scroll it down slowly to read the article but it can be done. Explains the funding system pretty well.

Ultimately Leinster have weaponised their natural advantages brilliantly. A couple of things are very clear:

The privately funded Leinster school system is an advantage no other province will ever likely match.

Secondly…..we are likely never going to attract any player north that has a reasonable chance of a pro contract/int selection down south….the 10yr tax refund doesn’t apply in NI. Realistically you’d be talking hundreds of thousands of euros given up within 3/4yrs Players wouldn’t want to give that up. It’s very rarely acknowledged but don’t tell me it isn’t a huge factor.

Many thanks for this. Yes you can read it behind the paywall. And reassuring that D4 is at least alive to the issues surrounding the other 3 provinces and the proposal for " part funding" central contracts..
It leaves the Ulster problem starkly illustrated. How did we move from 7/8 on the international team ( who would have been on central contracts at the time) to 1 ......and maybe soon none?

This is not D4s fault . It is Ulsters..

It doesn’t help when those within the Ulster branch keep telling everyone that we can’t compete with the Leinster schools system. They are nowhere near making the most out of the advantages we have, so they shouldn’t even think about Leinster.

[Dharper]

https://www.the42.ie/irfu-national-cont ... 7-Apr2024/

You have to scroll it down slowly to read the article but it can be done. Explains the funding system pretty well.

Ultimately Leinster have weaponised their natural advantages brilliantly. A couple of things are very clear:

The privately funded Leinster school system is an advantage no other province will ever likely match.

Secondly…..we are likely never going to attract any player north that has a reasonable chance of a pro contract/int selection down south….the 10yr tax refund doesn’t apply in NI. Realistically you’d be talking hundreds of thousands of euros given up within 3/4yrs Players wouldn’t want to give that up. It’s very rarely acknowledged but don’t tell me it isn’t a huge factor.

Many thanks for this. Yes you can read it behind the paywall. And reassuring that D4 is at least alive to the issues surrounding the other 3 provinces and the proposal for " part funding" central contracts..
It leaves the Ulster problem starkly illustrated. How did we move from 7/8 on the international team ( who would have been on central contracts at the time) to 1 ......and maybe soon none?

This is not D4s fault . It is Ulsters..

It doesn’t help when those within the Ulster branch keep telling everyone that we can’t compete with the Leinster schools system. They are nowhere near making the most out of the advantages we have, so they shouldn’t even think about Leinster.

Exactly.

Unfortunately it’s taken a downturn in finances to force UR into a possible change in approach. Hopefully money when generated will be invested in coaching, and talent Id will now take place outside of the usual suspects.

I will say “ignoring Leinster comparisons and doing it our way” although is correct and sensible - Is easier said than done for most”. They have no idea we aren’t talking about 40 odd pro players. We are talking businesses, budgets, natural advantages, long term planning and investment, tax systems, competition for the best people….etc etc.

The media / fans forums etc will always have comparisons between provinces, but it’s rarely
A fair comparison.

Clearly Murphy is auditioning for the gig so wants/needs results. I’d actually like him to keep giving the pups a go with a decent pre season I think we’ll improve a mile. When McNabney featured earlier in the season, yes he was naive defensively on the line, but he looked a decent hard carrier for a pup, I’m sure the S&C would have improved him I’d like to see him again. I want to see a hardened edge in the pack.
The 10 situation is nothing short of damning. Maybe something has been sorted quietly, maybe something is being sought, but we can’t have the 2 lads running the show.

As an aside Gilroy can’t help himself, clearly can’t stand DMcF, and absolutely damning of the micro management environment under him. You are guaranteed several barbs a game with him on comms. It’ll be interesting to see where DMcF pitches up next.

[Big-al]

I feel McFarland is a good coach? But perhaps not the best manager.

He realised we have dogshit players, so perhaps felt the need to tighten the game plan up.

He’d be a better coach with a team of internationals like Munster or Leinster, instead of a side full of thin skinned losers that currently make up then ulster squad.

Gilroy should be thankful he got a couple of well paid seasons at the end of his career were he was little more than a water carrier and gym buddy to the starters.

[HammerTime]

May be the typical Ulster attitude of asking for handouts but if the constitutional situation of where our HQ is based means that we are paying far more than the rest of the provinces (VAT, 10 year tax refund and I'm sure others) then the IRFU needs to be giving us extra compared to the other provinces. Or as mentioned before, file everything through some sort of address in the southern 3 counties.

[Big-al]

Is the average ticket price not a bit more expensive for Ravenhill than for Thomond or the horse arena?

[thecrouch]

Could they be paid from an ROI ltd company IE either IRFU H.O. or Virginia or Cavan RFC for example and UR loses this off their rebate?
Has to be ways of doing this. ROI is good at tax avoidance

Players?

All players are paid by the IRFU. IRFU bills the provinces at the end of the season for what they owe on wages.

Not sure if it's a different structure for NIQ players.

[Bobbievee]

https://www.the42.ie/irfu-national-cont ... 7-Apr2024/

You have to scroll it down slowly to read the article but it can be done. Explains the funding system pretty well.

Ultimately Leinster have weaponised their natural advantages brilliantly. A couple of things are very clear:

The privately funded Leinster school system is an advantage no other province will ever likely match.

Secondly…..we are likely never going to attract any player north that has a reasonable chance of a pro contract/int selection down south….the 10yr tax refund doesn’t apply in NI. Realistically you’d be talking hundreds of thousands of euros given up within 3/4yrs Players wouldn’t want to give that up. It’s very rarely acknowledged but don’t tell me it isn’t a huge factor.

Many thanks for this. Yes you can read it behind the paywall. And reassuring that D4 is at least alive to the issues surrounding the other 3 provinces and the proposal for " part funding" central contracts..
It leaves the Ulster problem starkly illustrated. How did we move from 7/8 on the international team ( who would have been on central contracts at the time) to 1 ......and maybe soon none?

This is not D4s fault . It is Ulsters..

It doesn’t help when those within the Ulster branch keep telling everyone that we can’t compete with the Leinster schools system. They are nowhere near making the most out of the advantages we have, so they shouldn’t even think about Leinster.

Exactly.

Unfortunately it’s taken a downturn in finances to force UR into a possible change in approach. Hopefully money when generated will be invested in coaching, and talent Id will now take place outside of the usual suspects.

I will say “ignoring Leinster comparisons and doing it our way” although is correct and sensible - Is easier said than done for most”. They have no idea we aren’t talking about 40 odd pro players. We are talking businesses, budgets, natural advantages, long term planning and investment, tax systems, competition for the best people….etc etc.

The media / fans forums etc will always have comparisons between provinces, but it’s rarely
A fair comparison.

Clearly Murphy is auditioning for the gig so wants/needs results. I’d actually like him to keep giving the pups a go with a decent pre season I think we’ll improve a mile. When McNabney featured earlier in the season, yes he was naive defensively on the line, but he looked a decent hard carrier for a pup, I’m sure the S&C would have improved him I’d like to see him again. I want to see a hardened edge in the pack.
The 10 situation is nothing short of damning. Maybe something has been sorted quietly, maybe something is being sought, but we can’t have the 2 lads running the show.

As an aside Gilroy can’t help himself, clearly can’t stand DMcF, and absolutely damning of the micro management environment under him. You are guaranteed several barbs a game with him on comms. It’ll be interesting to see where DMcF pitches up next.

Gavin Maura today in Daily Telegraph claims it took Northampton 6 years to “ build their own” including new coaching team

[Bobbievee]

This has not come by chance. Mark Darbon, Northampton’s chief executive, is highly regarded and tipped by some to succeed Bill Sweeney at the Rugby Football Union, and the decision to hire the veteran coach Chris Boyd to oversee the development of Dowson and his attack coach Sam Vesty six years ago proved to be a masterstroke.

[Bobbievee]

To continue the Mairs article

It has been a remarkable rise for Northampton, who have consistently spent under the salary cap and invested in a young coaching team under former captain and England flanker Dowson.

[Cormac]

They’re allowed to pick up to 10 relevant years.

I believe they have to be resident in Ireland or the EU when they retire. Dunno if post Brexit NI counts or not.

UR addressed Parliament on this 12 months ago saying that it was unfair they had to pay Irish players more to join.

Apparently, as also mentioned in the submission, they don’t pay VAT on ticket sales over the border and this tax liability costs Ulster up to 750k a year.

Post-Brexit UK still counts for "EU" as far as this scheme goes. They get a rebate (40%) on tax paid (pretty sure it's income tax only, excludes PRSI etc) in their top 10 earning years when they were fully resident in the ROI.

[MightyRearranger]

Apparently, as also mentioned in the submission, they don’t pay VAT on ticket sales over the border and this tax liability costs Ulster up to 750k a year.

Think that this is the main reason that the GAA Ulster finals are regularly played at Clones. Will be interesting to see if that remains the case after Casement gets rebuilt (assuming it ever happens). Also wonder if we'll see more Ulster games played in Cavan. The Glasgow friendly got a decent enough crowd.

[Cockatrice]

Was contemplating a new thread but lost the will.

Passing by Ravenhill last week it was noted that several police vehicles including police officers where seemingly searching property belonging to Ulster Rugby and removing items… was it a new episode of Blue Lights minus the cameras or something more revealing

[Dave]

Get a life.