Ulster Fans Racial Abuse

[FNMilk]

Is there a Dragons forum? I can't find one.

I'd sign up just ask the travelling supporters what they believe was actually said.

C'mon Gwent & UB, put it out into the public domain. What is it that is claimed to have been said and from where in the ground did it come?

[cables]

First half. Terrace side. It would appear.

[SteveLI]

are we the only team to use the dodgy kicker chant?

Good question.

Certainly you are the only fans I've heard use it at rugby - I've been to all the English away grounds and about half of the Welsh. What the French chant at us, god only knows

Didn't faze me when I heard you give Geraghty this treatment at Ravenhill, possibly because I go to a lot of English football and hear dodgy, dodgy keeper all the time.

But for the rugby-only folk who are big on their old-style civilities, I think it does wind them up a bit. Not saying they are right to feel that way or have these sensitivities, just saying it will happen because orchestrated chanting directed at the opposition is rare in northern hemisphere rugby (dunno about SH, never been).

Whether you think it's a good idea carrying on with it, it's really up to you.

My inkling is this type of banter will probably start creeping in at most rugby grounds over the next 20 or 30 years given the dominance and trendiness of football-style supporting among the young (showing my age now), I'm thinking of the Soccer AM-type stuff.

[cables]

Hi Steve

Good post. I pick on 2 words - 'orchestrated chanting'.

I have no doubt that happens at Ravenhill.

I personally prefer the ad hoc and individual type of banter but I am as yet undecided as to whether the orchestrated variety is in poor taste.

I feel I am close to your view however.

[horslips]

Steve

The point being that UR opted to do nothing on the away leg and we all know how that turned out.
I trust the source that told me of the events at Reading. I known that LI should be ashamed of their behaviour. So please give me a break on the all the support you can get front. I enjoyed the company of many LI fans on the day but as for the club -forget it. Duplicitous is the word that comes to mind. Some of the key personnel have done a great diservice to a club that would at one time enjoyed much support amongst UR. Not any more I would suggest.

Put these allegations in the public domain. I, for one, trust the average UR fan to ensure that should sectatian or racial abuse be directed at visiting teams all would stand up and and "advise the abuser" of the error of their ways

[SteveLI]

I hear what you are saying Horslips. But the problem with your argument is that however outraged and upset you were at the charge we laid against McCullough, we did put the matter to a formal judicial process conducted by a neutral third party that allowed the charge to be demonstrated to be unfounded and McCullough's good name to be cleared. Sadly, whispering campaigns and allegations on messageboards allow for no such natural justice for the accused, that is my objection.

[SteveLI]

Hi Steve

Good post. I pick on 2 words - 'orchestrated chanting'.

I have no doubt that happens at Ravenhill.

I personally prefer the ad hoc and individual type of banter but I am as yet undecided as to whether the orchestrated variety is in poor taste.

I feel I am close to your view however.

Agreed it is a matter of taste - it's similar to the debate about booing the kicker, just because French and New Zealand fans do it, it doesn't make them bad fans. One person's taste/etiquette is another person's political correctness, it's an impossible matter to solve to everyone's satisfaction, some will agree, some won't.

I'm very struck by the parallel with what is happening to Ulster fans now with what happened to Gloucester fans a few years ago.

Gloucester fans are well known for generally being the most politically incorrect of English rugby supporters. They have a large away contingent who like their pre-match beer. They have a ground that is widely regarded as "hostile" to the opposition, symbolised by the supposedly notorious "Shed" where away fans fear to tread. They respect the silence of the kicker, unless someone gives them a reason not to, then they will boo loudly the opposition if they suspect there has been some chicanery on the pitch or by the ref, a not uncommon occurance remarkably! The advent of internet messageboards allowed some fans of other English clubs to vent their gripes at the alleged rudeness of the Kingsholm experience for away fans. For a while it became quite trendy to slag off Glaws fans. They even had a race row to deal with in that Olivier Azam/Epi Taione incident which seemed to reflect further notoriety on Gloucester as a club.

I would imagine at the time Gloucester fans would have been pretty p'eed off with the hand that fate was dealing them and the press they were getting.

But - most rugby fans didn't take any real notice of the bad press. I didn't take any notice of it, I've travelled to Gloucester for 15 years now and supported London Irish louldy and hoarsely mainly from inside the "Shed" - what was said about Glaws fans didn't add up to my experience of them. I think most English rugby fans thought that and now, these days, much of the knocking of Glaws fans has largely died out.

Similarly I think the knocking you are currently getting is just a phase, maybe a little more hyped than what Gloucester had to go through because of the growing power of internet forums and opinion-driven journalism - but it is phase that will gradually die out because I don't think it will accord with what most fans' experiences of Ravenhill is like. Until then, my advice is keep smiling and don't get too angry about it all

[LePaul]

SteveLI says

I would say you need a few friends in the rugby world to support you right now, maybe even some at London Irish

Wise words Steve and I would urge us all to consider the implications of what Steve implies. We are on the verge of becoming rugby lepers, no matter if we deserve the label or not. We do need all the friends we can muster and indeed we are already using them now with reference to Toulouse.

Hopefully this is another case of mistaken interpretation but if it is some of the mud that will undoubtedly get flung will stick. The media clowns in the South will have a filed day with this and as Cables suggests we need this investigated NOW and ROBUSTLY and OPENLY We must remove any possibility of this getting out of control or bigger.

[browner]

Lifted from the Munsterfans site.............

From the Sunday Times

"Ulster rugby supporters racially abused 2 Welsh internationals during Fridays game at Ravenhill, NGD alleged last night"

Ulster CE Michael Reid acknowledged a complaint had been made by Brew to a touch judge but said it was one isolated incident (ARF!!! - Oh please!)

I cannot see this article on the Sunday Times online pages but its front page of my sports supplement. Anyone got a link?

As usual there is denial and counter claim from the Ulster lot.

Do they ever stop? How many games in a row has there now been a problem?

anybody seen this article?

[FNMilk]

Only one thing for it. Forget those overt walkie talkie carrying dudes. UR will have to plant some undercover operatives throughout the crowd.

To add:
To find out if these sort of abuses are made. This mud is starting to stick too easily.

[rugbynutter]

Is there a Dragons forum? I can't find one.

The Dragons forum is hosted on the Newport forum, same as the team!

http://www.talknewport.co.uk
A friend of mine who travelled said the following:

I heard some of the comments directed at Aled Brew and Colin Charvis when he came on, and they were unpleasant to say the least. So much so, that I spoke to a steward at half time about it. Some of the comments were loud enough to be heard from pitchside where I was.

The most annoying thing was that Colin was signing autographs for fans (ulster and dragons) in the first half while he was warming up, only for comments like that to be made.

Now Colin will let most things pass, and he didn't seem to be too bothered yesterday at the airport. Although some of the players had expressed disappointment at the treatment they had been given by some sections of the crowd, and the general feeling that I got on speaking to them on the journey home was exactly that expressed by the dragons in the statement. That it had soured the trip and the weekend in general.

Racist abuse has no place in Rugby, or professional sport in general. And to my mind some of the excuses made by Ulster fans are as bad; notably that "kicker" sounds different in a belfast accent (you can guess the word it sounds like can't you). Sorry, but having heard the abuse firsthand, I can categorically say that it was NOT "kicker" that they were shouting.

[browner]

'Nutter"..............did your friend tell you what was actually said?

[pwrmoore]

Is there a Dragons forum? I can't find one.

The Dragons forum is hosted on the Newport forum, same as the team!

http://www.talknewport.co.uk
A friend of mine who travelled said the following:

I heard some of the comments directed at Aled Brew and Colin Charvis when he came on, and they were unpleasant to say the least. So much so, that I spoke to a steward at half time about it. Some of the comments were loud enough to be heard from pitchside where I was.

The most annoying thing was that Colin was signing autographs for fans (ulster and dragons) in the first half while he was warming up, only for comments like that to be made.

Now Colin will let most things pass, and he didn't seem to be too bothered yesterday at the airport. Although some of the players had expressed disappointment at the treatment they had been given by some sections of the crowd, and the general feeling that I got on speaking to them on the journey home was exactly that expressed by the dragons in the statement. That it had soured the trip and the weekend in general.

Racist abuse has no place in Rugby, or professional sport in general. And to my mind some of the excuses made by Ulster fans are as bad; notably that "kicker" sounds different in a belfast accent (you can guess the word it sounds like can't you). Sorry, but having heard the abuse firsthand, I can categorically say that it was NOT "kicker" that they were shouting.

I would say all of us here agree that there is no place for Racism in Rugby. We are just finding it hard to believe that anthing of this kind can have taken place. Our general experience on the very few occasions when someone has over stepped the mark is that the crowd does not tolerate the abuser and he is left in no doubt that what he has done is not acceptable. If an incident of abuse occurred we would have expected a commotion in the crowd and the instigator to be put firmly in his place.

[redsock]

I feel that i should reply to iconaclast, as i am one of the blokes who sing tatey bread.

I have been going to Ravenhill since i was no age, I have been lucky enough to play there a few times, I have had the massive honour of playing youth level provincial rugby and i am still play every saturday (hamstrings permitting). I am well aware of the "rugby code" both as a player and as a supporter.

As pwrmoore says we do sing songs, all of them we have created, for better or for worse by ourselves BUT they all have one thing in common (apart from being sung out of key), they are sung to support Ulster. We never chant or shout about the opposition or their fans and certainly do not take the pi$$ out of kickers, some folk do the eeyore chant when oppo players make a mistake, we don't. Like I said I play the game albeit at a prety low level, so I and my friends (Many of whom play very week too) have nothing but respect for blokes who go out there to play.

I apologise if "tatey bread" has ruined your Ravenhill experience, I do have to say however that anyone who has spoken to me or my friends have thought it was ok, and i re-iterate that as with anything else we sing it is only to support Ulster.

Cheers

Alistair

[Tevez]

Rugbynutter

Thank you for your post.

This is bad news indeed.

Clearly none of the posters here heard what you heard (and I'm not disputing your account of events on Friday night!). I have not heard racist abuse by fans at Ravenhill in the 40 years I've been going, but as in any society if you bring 10,000 people together some of their views, norms and behaviour will be very different from yours or mine. There is no place for racism at Ravenhill or anywhere else in our society. I am glad you brought the abuse to the attention of the stewards - frankly we don't need these sort of people at Ravenhill. Let's stop this at source.

What part of the ground was the abuse coming from? Did you get the impression these were individuals abusing Aled and Colin or was there group chanting? (Neither of which are acceptable). Did any Ulster fans attempt to intervene with those doing the abusing?

I was at the half way line on the terrace (with a couple of NGD fans as it happened) and as others have said previously noticed Aled (playing on the left wing down our touchline) remonstrating with the touch judge in the first half and like others feared he wasn't complaining about Ulster slowing the ball down or some skull duggery in the scrum!

I am sorry if the actions of (I trust) a few have spoilt you weekend.