The UAFC

big mervyn wrote:

WeeWorld wrote:Shouldn't we also be learning a word of Ullans a week?

Sure wiv aw got a quare kist aw the wurds aready.

Very guid

Rooster wrote: Money is a serious issue, the cost of road signs alone is astronomical, not only do the signs need changed but the actual poles etc that hold them are not designed for the larger signs needed, same goes for public buildings as well.
At present is is a great wee excuse for SF and DUP both to use to keep themselves out of any difficult decisions on health and education.
That's why they give out about SOS Karen Bradley doing nothing, both would love it if she reformed health and education and she knows well what they are at.

Whole thing is a farce to keep the them'uns and us'uns happy

It doesn't actually matter what the cost is. The only consideration is if the cost of not doing it is higher. That can be calculated in many different ways.

An example of not doing something because of the alleged cost - Here there was a decision taken not to build houses for about the last 15 years or so and the reason given was because there was no money. In that time and worsening by the week numerous well connected folk have managed to secure themselves 6 figure sums + providing property to the state to be used to house folk. The cost of providing this property is multiple times higher than the cost of building new houses(In Dublin the property owners are claiming almost €2k per week for each bedroom they make available. €100k per year per family - You could build a standard family home for less than double that and it would last for years obviously. The social cost is also massive and could have knock-on crime-related and health-related costs later.

Another case, and this goes on in the UK as well - Reducing headcount in the public service all sounds lovely for saving public money - What actually happens is that the work previously done by these guys is then outsourced to the private sector at much higher cost. However on the books it is not counted as salaries so all is good.

Money is a bullsh1t excuse every time. Incompetence, Inability to make decisions and various levels of corruption is the root cause almost all the time. In NI you can add the lovely word "division" to the mix.

Shan wrote:Reducing headcount in the public service all sounds lovely for saving public money - What actually happens is that the work previously done by these guys is then outsourced to the private sector at much higher cost.

Is that counting the gold plated pensions the public service provide and actually measuring output?
What is the incentive is to do any work at all in the public service? You're paid a salary and no one ever gets fired.
Everyone knows that working hard won't win you make you more money or win kudos, it will just pi$h off your colleagues and mean you have less time to do the stuff that wins promotion. Your boss isn't really your boss and neither is his boss, all are just public servants who above all else just want the paperwork to be in order.

WeeWorld wrote:Shouldn't we also be learning a word of Ullans a week?

Some on this forum should just start with learning English ...


...so they should.

Shan wrote:

Rooster wrote: Money is a serious issue, the cost of road signs alone is astronomical, not only do the signs need changed but the actual poles etc that hold them are not designed for the larger signs needed, same goes for public buildings as well.
At present is is a great wee excuse for SF and DUP both to use to keep themselves out of any difficult decisions on health and education.
That's why they give out about SOS Karen Bradley doing nothing, both would love it if she reformed health and education and she knows well what they are at.

Whole thing is a farce to keep the them'uns and us'uns happy

It doesn't actually matter what the cost is. The only consideration is if the cost of not doing it is higher. That can be calculated in many different ways.

An example of not doing something because of the alleged cost - Here there was a decision taken not to build houses for about the last 15 years or so and the reason given was because there was no money. In that time and worsening by the week numerous well connected folk have managed to secure themselves 6 figure sums + providing property to the state to be used to house folk. The cost of providing this property is multiple times higher than the cost of building new houses(In Dublin the property owners are claiming almost €2k per week for each bedroom they make available. €100k per year per family - You could build a standard family home for less than double that and it would last for years obviously. The social cost is also massive and could have knock-on crime-related and health-related costs later.

Another case, and this goes on in the UK as well - Reducing headcount in the public service all sounds lovely for saving public money - What actually happens is that the work previously done by these guys is then outsourced to the private sector at much higher cost. However on the books it is not counted as salaries so all is good.

Money is a bullsh1t excuse every time. Incompetence, Inability to make decisions and various levels of corruption is the root cause almost all the time. In NI you can add the lovely word "division" to the mix.

All very true for housing and services etc, but if the cost of not doing it is simply to give in to threats (implied or otherwise), is that good enough to justify it? It's not like by not having an act, anyone is saying you cannot speak Irish, Ulster Scots, Chinese or whatever.

I don't see anyone being worse off by not having an Irish language act, an Ulster Scots language act, a Chinese Mandarin language act or any other language act. If money is unlimited, fair enough, but in the meantime, put what money there is where it will do most good.

If that means supplying interpreters for Irish, bad English or Chinese or any other language where and when needed, that too is fair enough, but that is already covered in existing legislation,is it not?

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:

Shan wrote:It doesn't really matter what any SF person said. Money is not the issue here.

It very much is AN issue, and to say otherwise is very naive.

Shan wrote:It is simply a handy excuse when folk don't want to say that the real reason is because of the division itself.

Goes without saying that the fools on the Hill will use any excuse ...

Kofi Annan wrote:Gobshite

... is Irish for ... ???

I failed to say that of course we can't do everything we want as we don't have a magic money tree. I'll concede that point. However overall cost analysis is more the factor than simple money cost.

And yes politicians will always use any possible excuse they think they can get away with. That is not just for the folk on the hill. It plays out in the very same way in actual parliaments such as those in Dublin and London.

Cap'n Grumpy wrote: All very true for housing and services etc, but if the cost of not doing it is simply to give in to threats (implied or otherwise), is that good enough to justify it? It's not like by not having an act, anyone is saying you cannot speak Irish, Ulster Scots, Chinese or whatever.

I don't see anyone being worse off by not having an Irish language act, an Ulster Scots language act, a Chinese Mandarin language act or any other language act. If money is unlimited, fair enough, but in the meantime, put what money there is where it will do most good.

If that means supplying interpreters for Irish, bad English or Chinese or any other language where and when needed, that too is fair enough, but that is already covered in existing legislation,is it not?

That is true and that need v want needs to be part of the overall cost analysis. I cannot say for sure what the cost of not implementing an ILA is as I am not even indirectly impacted by this. This requires analysis of all the factors and needs to be done by folk with an indepth knowledge of the competing factors and players in NI.

However I tend, on a personal level, to agree with you. I also cannot see why anyone is worse off without the act but I am not in a position to know this for certain.

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:

WeeWorld wrote:Shouldn't we also be learning a word of Ullans a week?

Some on this forum should just start with learning English ...


...so they should.

Agreed. It would be no harm at all for the UK Govt to set aside some funding as a matter of urgency to be allocated for English language classes for some of the native population. Maybe even have an English Language Act (NI) if necessary.

Cap'n Grumpy wrote:

Shan wrote:

Rooster wrote: Money is a serious issue, the cost of road signs alone is astronomical, not only do the signs need changed but the actual poles etc that hold them are not designed for the larger signs needed, same goes for public buildings as well.
At present is is a great wee excuse for SF and DUP both to use to keep themselves out of any difficult decisions on health and education.
That's why they give out about SOS Karen Bradley doing nothing, both would love it if she reformed health and education and she knows well what they are at.

Whole thing is a farce to keep the them'uns and us'uns happy

It doesn't actually matter what the cost is. The only consideration is if the cost of not doing it is higher. That can be calculated in many different ways.

An example of not doing something because of the alleged cost - Here there was a decision taken not to build houses for about the last 15 years or so and the reason given was because there was no money. In that time and worsening by the week numerous well connected folk have managed to secure themselves 6 figure sums + providing property to the state to be used to house folk. The cost of providing this property is multiple times higher than the cost of building new houses(In Dublin the property owners are claiming almost €2k per week for each bedroom they make available. €100k per year per family - You could build a standard family home for less than double that and it would last for years obviously. The social cost is also massive and could have knock-on crime-related and health-related costs later.

Another case, and this goes on in the UK as well - Reducing headcount in the public service all sounds lovely for saving public money - What actually happens is that the work previously done by these guys is then outsourced to the private sector at much higher cost. However on the books it is not counted as salaries so all is good.

Money is a bullsh1t excuse every time. Incompetence, Inability to make decisions and various levels of corruption is the root cause almost all the time. In NI you can add the lovely word "division" to the mix.

All very true for housing and services etc, but if the cost of not doing it is simply to give in to threats (implied or otherwise), is that good enough to justify it? It's not like by not having an act, anyone is saying you cannot speak Irish, Ulster Scots, Chinese or whatever.

I don't see anyone being worse off by not having an Irish language act, an Ulster Scots language act, a Chinese Mandarin language act or any other language act. If money is unlimited, fair enough, but in the meantime, put what money there is where it will do most good.

If that means supplying interpreters for Irish, bad English or Chinese or any other language where and when needed, that too is fair enough, but that is already covered in existing legislation,is it not?

It wouldn't be a first if someone appeared in hospital wanting to speak Irish, I heard of one case but even with an Irish speaking nurse in attendance once the pain got too bad they reverted to English

Rooster wrote:It wouldn't be a first if someone appeared in hospital wanting to speak Irish, I heard of one case but even with an Irish speaking nurse in attendance once the pain got too bad they reverted to English

Some of my Spanish friends get all upset about the Catalans who insist on speaking their own language if they are on TV, even though they can all speak Spanish. Sometime folk need to cop on a bit and not be gowls. If you went into a hospital down here speaking Irish you'd have a fecking job on your hands getting the help you need so nobody does as we all fecking speak English as a first language. However we do like to have our placenames displayed in Irish. Tis not much to ask to keep a visible sign of our heritage, even if we are not obsessed about it down here..... well most of us - Some fecking eejits are always obsessed about things they shouldn't be.

Shan wrote:

Rooster wrote:It wouldn't be a first if someone appeared in hospital wanting to speak Irish, I heard of one case but even with an Irish speaking nurse in attendance once the pain got too bad they reverted to English

Some of my Spanish friends get all upset about the Catalans who insist on speaking their own language if they are on TV, even though they can all speak Spanish. Sometime folk need to cop on a bit and not be gowls. If you went into a hospital down here speaking Irish you'd have a fecking job on your hands getting the help you need so nobody does as we all fecking speak English as a first language. However we do like to have our placenames displayed in Irish. Tis not much to ask to keep a visible sign of our heritage, even if we are not obsessed about it down here..... well most of us - Some fecking eejits are always obsessed about things they shouldn't be.

You have unknowingly summed up the major problem with it up here Shan, there are too many gowls who will try and make points and scream discrimination.
I have no personal problem with road signs etc but then again depending on area they will be targets for part time painters and leave the place looking a mess.
BOI recently removed the Irish option on their cash machines and you can bet someone here is ready to go to court and sue them if an Act was in here.
Too many gowls on both sides that will use it to push their own agendas.

Rooster wrote: BOI recently removed the Irish option on their cash machines and you can bet someone here is ready to go to court and sue them if an Act was in here.

Definitely the best way to make something be about money is to get the legal profession involved.

Given how anti-Ulster and sectarian BOI allegedly are I am surprised they didn't remove the English option......then again anything they do is certainly about money, and only about money.

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