FOLK

[scrum5]

Kiss is undoubtedly part of the problem along side some average signings (Bryn's remit) another injury crisis (Coetzee and Deysel) and 2 stupid and irresponsible halfwits who we're not allowed to mention, Kiss should go but so should others.

[BaggyTrousers]

This would be an excellent day for Les Kiss to do the decent thing and resign.

It would indeed TJ, then again any day would be excellent as long as it's not far distant.

I see two beatings by Hairyqueens, not that they are a great team, a defeat to Connacht in Galway for Christmas & a usual beating from a winning position against Munster next year to welcome in the year of my emigration - surely I'll seel my bricks sometime next year - and the already untenable would be sealed.

Fair comment Scrumptious, but then again if we get rid of too many we could just lock the gate.

[Tender]

Hope springs...
Ever the optimist. I’m hoping Jono’s comments in the Bellylaugh could be his hat thrown into the ring. He may be just deflecting some heat away from our very own Charlene Tilton, but I hope he’s had enough and has decided to position himself for the job.

[mid ulster maestro]

Sadly I think if UR are going to get rid of Les it's going to take time due to the speed UR operates. I've seen glaciers move faster.

[Cockatrice]

Hope springs...
Ever the optimist. I’m hoping Jono’s comments in the Bellylaugh could be his hat thrown into the ring. He may be just deflecting some heat away from our very own Charlene Tilton, but I hope he’s had enough and has decided to position himself for the job.

If he didn't initially realise what he was surrounded by he must surely now... BS from top to bottom and an Ulster Way that means the biggest criteria for getting anywhere is being a nice guy..

[big mervyn]

.... he had the 1914 star for those who were actually there "under fire" in 1914 at Mons & Ypres. Christ knows what he saw there.

Baggy - ye may already know this about the 1914 Star (actually the 1914-15 star).

It was instituted in Dec 1918 and was awarded to any officer or serviceman who fought against the Central powers in any theatre of war in 1914 and/or 1915, i.e. before the introduction of the Military Service Act, bringing in conscription in 1916.

In other words, It was awarded to volunteers only.

It was always awarded with The British War Medal (1914-20) and the Victory Medal (1914-19) (i.e. Pip, Squeak & Wilfred)

My grandfather would have been kicking around France around the same time as yours. He joined up at the start of hostilities - had to try twice, because he wasn't much more than a nipper and didn't look his age, so they wouldn't believe he was old enough first time.

Anyway, at the second attempt, he got in and was almost immediately threatened with Court Martial for disobeying an order. That order was to report to an infantry battalion. My granda refused, saying he had joined up to save life, not take it. After a barney, he was assigned to the Royal Army Medical Corps.

He went over the top at the Somme and suffered blast damage to his lungs, and later at Ypres was gassed but survived with more lung damage. He survived the war and worked in the ship-yard until he died a premature death having suffered from lung complaints all his adult life.

He almost certainly wasn't a "hero" in the sense that many see our war legends, but I'm very proud to be of his loins, even though I never met him. He died before I was born.

I had another great uncle who served in WW2 who was always described by older family members as a hero who escaped from POW camp and had a successful "home-run". I was always in awe of him, although again I never met him as after the war he settled in London.

I can say I was not a little disappointed when I found out the details of his wartime exploits. Apparently was taken prisoner in the first few days of the war, spent the following 6 years (almost) in POW camp and as the war drew to a conclusion, he "escaped" from POW camp when it was abandoned by the Germans as the Soviets approached. He simply walked out of camp when the guards had gone and dandered about half a mile up the road, to greet the Red Army. He was eventually repatriated to Engerland to complete his "home-run".

Not the most epic of escape stories and derring-do, but a good one nonetheless, if one isn't aware of the finer detail!

[color=#FF0000]EDIT: I note now that there was a 1914 Star, which was similar to the 1914-15 star but with a much more limited service period - also sometimes known as the Mons Star. Both of these were also known as Pip. Everyday's a school day.

[/color]


I could have saved you the trouble of incorrectly correcting me Grumps. The Mons Star as it was known covers both the 1914 & the 1914-15 star I believe but only 365000 approx of the 1914 Star were given to those who had been "under fire" between August & December 1914. The much more widely distributed 1914-15 star was no "guarantee" that you had been in battle, though of course, I'd assume the vast majority were. Further, many soldiers qualified for both but only one medal, the 1914 taking precedence, was issued. Pte. Morrison qualified for both though semi-interestingly in different regiments, 1914 R. Irish Rifles, 1914-15 The Black Watch. I've pondered if his regiment was so decimated that he was shuffled over to Black Watch. He had been in Scottish regiments as a regular, so obviously having qualified for both, you are incorrect in saying it was for volunteers.

Having had his medals for years, I finally decided to check things out recently and got a copy of his medal cards (citations) from the National Archive. He qualified on 31st August 1914, but I assume that was simply when it was written up, for the scrap started on 5th August and he was there as were almost the entire regular strength of the army.

Anyway, he was clearly proud of his service and medals for "The Star" in particular is so polished that the writing on the scroll over the crossed swords is almost unreadable, but is 1914, the others are comparatively pristine.

Odd to think our grandfathers were probably huddled in a trench in bloody awful conditions 100 years ago.

I did my bit. 3 years on HMS Waterwitch making sure the Argies didn't sail up the Mersey on weekends or Wed evenings. Like all heroes, I prefer not to talk about it.

Boils mine when some scrote sells their granda's Ww1 service medals on Flog Your Family Heirlooms or Cash Down the Sofa for not much more than a meal in Pizza But.

[Kofi Annan]

"In the future, the dream ticket for Ulster is that we are the world's best and people are coming here from around the world to see how we do it. Also that we are thriving in our clubs and schools, that the Ulster side is winning trophies, that our coaches and players are in demand in New Zealand and Australia and that we are recognised as doing things the best way - and also in a straight, honest and enduring manner."
Shane Logan, Ulster CEO, February 2015


On an October night in 2010 we ended up as the sole southern representative at a table of Ulster hacks. It was in Biarritz, balmy enough, and despite the second-half collapse of their team earlier that day the group was lively and upbeat. Change was underway, for the better. After a long road with no turn, they could see good times around the corner.
We got to discussing the relative merits of the provinces, and, given that Munster and Leinster between them had picked up three of the previous five Heineken Cups, you could see what direction the conversation was going. At one point a colleague arrested it to make plain something he felt needed clarifying.

"It's all very fine for you in Dublin writing from a distance about Munster and Leinster and Ulster," he said. "But this is our team. These guys represent who we are!"
It stayed with us, that line, for while the Brave and the Faithful were dominating the fan-zones of Europe they were a recent phenomenon. Ulster's politics would always mean that the bond between team and supporters - by extension those who wrote about them - would be a longer and closer affair.

So we observed with interest the scene last weekend in Kingspan Stadium as Ulster's season ended prematurely, again. On the surface the full house waved cheerfully and clapped as their hero, Ruan Pienaar, signed off his last competitive game in a winning performance against Leinster.
Barely below that surface, however, was a level of discontent among the fans that has been matched within the squad. Its epicentre was the coaching staff, two of whom, Neil Doak and Allen Clarke, were, like Pienaar, on their last lap.

From all sources we spoke to last week the relationship between director of rugby Les Kiss, Doak and Clarke was dysfunctional. 'Toxic' was a word used by three separate people to describe the atmosphere in the Ulster camp. Clarke's unpopularity with the players was seemingly widespread. Sources close to the centre say he didn't get on with Doak, and that Doak in turn couldn't operate under Kiss, who he felt was invading his space on the field. That may have been because Kiss, as the boss, wanted to mark his own territory, and was not enamoured of Doak's reaction to the shift in power. Either way the dynamic was awful, and badly managed.
The circumstances in which these three men were thrown together are themselves reflective of an operation running up its own backside.

You could say the decline started after Ulster fell asleep at the wheel in the wake of the European Cup win in 1999. Or you could choose a point almost eight seasons later when Mark McCall resigned, a season and a half after delivering the province's only Celtic League title. Perhaps the stripes he got on his back during that three and a half years in charge in Ravenhill have shaped the highly successful coach he is today, but certainly they looked painful at the time. The vitriol that attended his demise illustrated a fan-base with crazy expectations from an organisation who weren't tooled up to deliver.
Thereafter Ulster roller-coasted, with the lows more memorable than the highs. The constant themes have been the power of the dressing-room, whose influence was greater off the pitch than on it, and the poor choices made in the boardroom.

The nadir has a place on YouTube, albeit with a surprisingly low hit-rate. In February 2012 then operations director David Humphreys faced the press to explain why coach Brian McLaughlin was being shunted sideways into the Academy. McLaughlin was in his third season in a job he had been given in unusual circumstances.

Since McCall's departure Ulster had, after caretaker coach Steve Williams, been through 17 months of Matt Williams. They wanted someone to settle a listing ship. McLaughlin had a long career behind him as a schools coach, had worked as a skills coach with Eddie O'Sullivan's Ireland set-up, and was Ulster through and through. Humphreys thought he would be ideal to give the young Ulster squad some direction. For how long, though, was a different matter.
To give McLaughlin some comfort for abandoning his school gig in RBAI for the capricious world of pro sport, the sweetener was a guaranteed place somewhere in the Ulster set-up when the natural life of the senior coaching role expired. Agreeing what was natural was another issue.
Having drawn blanks at the business end of Europe ever since they won it in '99, McLaughlin had overseen back-to-back qualification for the knock-outs. The natives were more than bullish. But some powerful voices in the dressing-room reckoned he wasn't the man to complete the job, and Humphreys evidently agreed. The press conference to announce the shift was Punch and Judy without the contact.

To compound the public relations disaster, Ulster turned to Mark Anscombe as his successor. A self-styled straight shooter, the New Zealander must have winged a few of the wrong cowboys in the dressing-room, because they cut him short as well. Oh, almost forgot: Humphreys, who had recruited Anscombe, jumped ship to Gloucester in June 2014. He had barely got his feet under the desk at Kingsholm when Anscombe got shafted back in Belfast.

That's where Les Kiss came in. Showing a sharp eye for a gap, Ulster wedged themselves into the space between Kiss and his duties as Ireland defence coach. It was seen at the time as a coup, for Kiss is highly regarded. Initially he left assistants Doak, Clarke and Jonny Bell in charge while he served out his time with Ireland, and looked in on Ulster. As soon as the World Cup was over, Kiss rode north in earnest. A new era began.
It is unclear exactly when the relationship began to sour. The lads had enjoyed the freedom of the gaff when Kiss was in absentee landlord mode, and Ulster were competitive without picking up anything to show for it. The next season was more of the same: good in Europe without being good enough, and invited to the end-of-season party in the PRO12, but not asked to stay over.

This season, however, was a studied exercise in failure. Hobbled by a freakish number of injuries, especially up front, gradually the waft of internal unrest began to spread. When it was announced that Clarke and Doak would be moving on, there was a mixture of relief and disappointment among those close to the scene: glad the charade was coming to an end, and certainly in Doak's case sad that a coach with a lot to offer was no longer wanted. Clarke will be with the Ospreys next season; Doak will, initially at any rate, coach in Queen's University.

Kiss in the meantime will be picking up the pieces, knowing that if they fall again he won't get a chance to explain. It helps that neither of his new wingmen, Jono Gibbes and Dwayne Peel, have any connection with the province. So no history, no baggage. But both should be aware of the scale of the task: they will inherit a squad short of forward power but big on passing the buck. The best player, Pienaar, is en route to France, and there is no queue of local lads looking for his shirt.
At that press conference in 2012 to shift McLaughlin sideways, Humphreys explained it as a knock-on effect of IRFU policy. Head office, he said, were demanding optimum performance from Ulster's Academy. The pressure was hot to increase the crop of home-growns, and McLaughlin was the man to do that. McLaughlin left a year later. And despite all the moaning over Pienaar being exiled from Ulster, there are still great big gaps where the young players are supposed to be. No sign of the bus-loads rolling up to Ravenhill to learn the Ulster Way, either.

On Friday evening, Shane Logan issued the following statement: "There's no doubt that it has been a hugely frustrating season for us but I believe the pillars of success are in place at Ulster Rugby. We have a loyal supporter base, excellent facilities, a talented playing squad, an improving Academy programme and a strong management/back-room team. This will all contribute to the long-term and sustainable future of Ulster Rugby."
Sunday Indo Sport

[Cockatrice]

and a strong management/back-room team. This will all contribute to the long-term and sustainable future of Ulster Rugby."

So Kiss is going nowhere fast...

[Rooster]

So Login is still spouting crap at the end.

[Cockatrice]

So Login is still spouting crap at the end.

Precisely what planet does he come from....

thanks CI

[CIMANFOREVER]

Plant? Kingdom:Fungi, Division Eumycota, ,

[CIMANFOREVER]

You get my drift...
Great article btw Kofi. Totally apposite

[BaggyTrousers]

That Kofi is the saddest story ever told. I've had to reach for the tissues.

A tragic tale of unrequited bullshite from a compulsive exaggerater - "liar" is such a rude word don't you think, definitely unparliamentary and therefore inappropriate he in the courtroom of public opinion, no matter how appropriate.

The saddest thing about the whole tale is that, as Big Ron would have said around 2012 & 2013, "it's showing good signs................... up to yet".

For all that many thought McGlock was not good enough to take things forward, I trace the start of the decline back to when Doc Humphreys didn't so much stab him in the back, as did a bit of Halal butchery in the town square in full cringe-worthy public glare.

The Town Drunk, as I understand Anscombe was known in Holywood, Co Down, appeared to have something, though in short order it became obvious that the early results probably came down to the players reaction to the death of young Nevin than anything Anscombe was doing, and I'd put a lot of credit in the large Saffer shaped box, named Johann, a proper leader of men, especially when the coach was too drunk-up to turn in for work.

Pissedup Coach wrote his resignation by making ridiculous substitutions to lose a game Ulster outplayed Mexico in the 2013 semi-final at RDS, culminating in feckin' Shinnerboots waltzing between Sugar & Girrid as if they weren't there.

And those, believe it or not, were the good bits. Subsequently, we've had bit-part FOLK & full-bore full-on-chube FOLK.

Under these last two, the King - Fit C - has been shown to have a particularly sparse wardrobe and there are some who just consider him a swinging bit, Ulster has regressed to the point of being just the same shambles that it was before the early days of Fit & Doc starring McGlock.

Others can say what they like, for my money McGlock was the best coach we've had since Harry Williams, the old master and then Solly and Small McCall, sadly driven out and with the consensus, "good guy, too early". But after that? What a fuc'kin nightmare, as Miss Mona-Lisa Vito would say.

The Williams Sisters FFS? And then on to McGlock.

Everything dies baby, that's a fact. Maybe everything that dies someday comes back. Yeah well, that may be true if you're born in the USA........ but Ulster? I'm not feelin' it, Bruce.

Such a sad tale and not a hint of WD mentioned.

[Rooster]

That Kofi is the saddest story ever told. I've had to reach for the tissues.

A tragic tale of unrequited bullshite from a compulsive exaggerater - "liar" is such a rude word don't you think, definitely unparliamentary and therefore inappropriate he in the courtroom of public opinion, no matter how appropriate.

The saddest thing about the whole tale is that, as Big Ron would have said around 2012 & 2013, "it's showing good signs................... up to yet".

For all that many thought McGlock was not good enough to take things forward, I trace the start of the decline back to when Doc Humphreys didn't so much stab him in the back, as did a bit of Halal butchery in the town square in full cringe-worthy public glare.

The Town Drunk, as I understand Anscombe was known in Holywood, Co Down, appeared to have something, though in short order it became obvious that the early results probably came down to the players reaction to the death of young Nevin than anything Anscombe was doing, and I'd put a lot of credit in the large Saffer shaped box, named Johann, a proper leader of men, especially when the coach was too drunk-up to turn in for work.

Pissedup Coach wrote his resignation by making ridiculous substitutions to lose a game Ulster outplayed Mexico in the 2013 semi-final at RDS, culminating in feckin' Shinnerboots waltzing between Sugar & Girrid as if they weren't there.

And those, believe it or not, were the good bits. Subsequently, we've had bit-part FOLK & full-bore full-on-chube FOLK.

Under these last two, the King - Fit C - has been shown to have a particularly sparse wardrobe and there are some who just consider him a swinging bit, Ulster has regressed to the point of being just the same shambles that it was before the early days of Fit & Doc starring McGlock.

Others can say what they like, for my money McGlock was the best coach we've had since Harry Williams, the old master and then Solly and Small McCall, sadly driven out and with the consensus, "good guy, too early". But after that? What a fuc'kin nightmare, as Miss Mona-Lisa Vito would say.

The Williams Sisters FFS? And then on to McGlock.

Everything dies baby, that's a fact. Maybe everything that dies someday comes back. Yeah well, that may be true if you're born in the USA........ but Ulster? I'm not feelin' it, Bruce.

Such a sad tale and not a hint of WD mentioned.

You could have added this other line from later in the song Baggy

Down here it's just winners and losers and don't get caught on the wrong side of that line
Well I'm tired of coming out on this losing end

[ColinM]

Is that quip from FOSL really from 48hrs ago? Being sustainable is a far cry from WD but feck me what a load of twaddle.

Basically UR never knew what was good for them and putting the right people around either of McC or McL and sticking by them might just have been it.

I'm sure McL would have settled for a senior assistant role alongside a truly top world class coach but then there would not have been the space for Lord Humph in such a structure....up to the CEO to get these calls right

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