Do we have a problem??

[FRB]

PJ, as did others, did not play to his potential yesterday. He looked utterly distraught after he had been subbed.

He now has the chance to go away with ireland U20 and regain confidence (if indeed he has lost any) in a different environment and away from the microsocpic eye of us ULSTER supporters wo will analyse his every move.

As others have said, next season he has Ruan and PW on the field and Humph off it to assist with his development.

[FRB]

PJ, as did others, did not play to his potential yesterday. He looked utterly distraught after he had been subbed.

He now has the chance to go away with ireland U20 and regain confidence (if indeed he has lost any) in a different environment and away from the microsocpic eye of us ULSTER supporters wo will analyse his every move.

As others have said, next season he has Ruan and PW on the field and Humph off it to assist with his development.

[Fly Half]

1. Most accept that Paddy Jackson isn't 'ready'.
2. That means he will make mistakes that cost Ulster games.
3. Criticism is likely to lower his confidence.
4. The lower his confidence the longer it will take him to get ready.

Is it acceptable for Ulster to forfeit games in pursuit of one player's development, and by doing so probably prolong the time it takes for Paddy to get 'ready'?

[Snipe Watson]

83,000 people, HEC final, against the best side in Europe, being watched by millions, not nearly enough first team starts. It does not get any tougher than that.
He was not ready yesterday, but PJ is ready for any given Friday night in the Rabo

[bazzaj]

Looking at three of the top 10s around in Carter, Priestland and Sexton they all have certain things in common.
The first is that they were mentored by world class 10s in Mertons,Jones and Contemponi and they were all over 23 before they were the first pick 10s of their clubs.

PJ is 20 which is three years less development time than they had before being established as first pick flyhalfs at their clubs.
Three years is a heck of a long time in rugby terms especially at that young age.

It is vital that the next 10 signing is quality in terms of PJs abilty to learn from him.
Maybe look to play PJ at 12 before taking over the reigns at 10 as they did with Dan Carter and Wilkinson.
Less pressure involved and he can watch and learn as he plays.

[Snipe Watson]

It is vital that the next 10 signing is quality in terms of PJs abilty to learn from him.

Have you heard something?
Because I don't see us signing a NIQ flyhalf for a decade or more.

[mikkii6]

Snipe- I'll quote a few of your posts just to remind you of their content, I didn't appreciate an association in your post of the thrust of my argument with horse manure. I'll leave the creation of said nefarious substance to the progenitor of the new "bloodgate" scandal, whoever that might be.

You are damning RP with faint praise there Mikkii6. RP is a world class 9 and nearly as good at 10. He is a far better 10 than anyone we could bring in and we have the advantage that he will also be on the pitch playing with PJ.
This notion peddled by some that RP is a passable 10 is total horse manure. If he played there week in week out he would be world class there as well.
I still think there are many posters on here who have yet to catch on to the supreme talent we have at our disposal.

First- I have used the adjective decent to describe Pienaar's talents at FH in a previous post. This is not the same as passable and can carry overtones suggesting a high level of quality. Therefore to interpret it as passable is not necessarily correct (I think we NOW agree on this), it is also not essentially different in the context in which I used it from "very good," if anything it is more descriptive of an attitude towards the game rather than an empty relative indicator with little known about the wider relative scale. However to move from

You are damning RP with faint praise there Mikkii6. RP is a world class 9 and nearly as good at 10. He is a far better.....

to

This notion peddled by some that RP is a passable 10 is total horse manure.

and then further to develop what was phrased as a reply to my post

I still think there are many posters on here who have yet to catch on to the supreme talent we have at our disposal.

Does itself carry implications beyond the faint praise argument as hinging on a semantic concern into the merits of the substance of my argument. Hence I find for the reasons previously stated that I am not guilty. In addition the main thrust of the argument was that Pienaar was better at SH than at FH (I think we actually agree on this) and I am all too aware of RP's talents and not downplaying them at all.
Second- Continuing to play Piennar at SH clearly leaves the 10 shirt open (we agree on this as well.) I offered a clarification of the merits as I saw it for having a specialist FH drafted in (so to speak.) I note that these haven't been addressed in your post namely- the merits of competition for the shirt, cover for the position and to help develop Jackson (not necessarily to the exclusion of RPs efforts in this regard as well). I still stand by these. We can't rely on Jackson just yet and I'd rather see Pienaar at SH therefore we need to get a good replacement for IH.

I hope I have clarified matters somewhat.

[bazzaj]

Thought Shane Logan came out and said at the end of April that we were signing one more.
Apologises Snipe if this is not the case.
Further example just thinking was the way Madigan is developing under Sexton.
He was excellent when he came on yesterday and I think he is about 23 as well.

[Snipe Watson]

Thought Shane Logan came out and said at the end of April that we were signing one more.
Apologises Snipe if this is not the case.
Further example just thinking was the way Madigan is developing under Sexton.
He was excellent when he came on yesterday and I think he is about 23 as well.

I believe we have signed or are about to sign a back row player to replace P3

[breakdown]

Madigan is 23 but PJ is 20 so has three more years before he catches up with Madigan, by that time Madigan could be Irelands first choice 10 as Sexton would be 29 or close to 30

[Snipe Watson]

Snipe- I'll quote a few of your posts just to remind you of their content, I didn't appreciate an association in your post of the thrust of my argument with horse manure. I'll leave the creation of said nefarious substance to the progenitor of the new "bloodgate" scandal, whoever that might be.

You are damning RP with faint praise there Mikkii6. RP is a world class 9 and nearly as good at 10. He is a far better 10 than anyone we could bring in and we have the advantage that he will also be on the pitch playing with PJ.
This notion peddled by some that RP is a passable 10 is total horse manure. If he played there week in week out he would be world class there as well.
I still think there are many posters on here who have yet to catch on to the supreme talent we have at our disposal.

First- I have used the adjective decent to describe Pienaar's talents at FH in a previous post. This is not the same as passable and can carry overtones suggesting a high level of quality. Therefore to interpret it as passable is not necessarily correct (I think we NOW agree on this), it is also not essentially different in the context in which I used it from "very good," if anything it is more descriptive of an attitude towards the game rather than an empty relative indicator with little known about the wider relative scale. However to move from

You are damning RP with faint praise there Mikkii6. RP is a world class 9 and nearly as good at 10. He is a far better.....

to

This notion peddled by some that RP is a passable 10 is total horse manure.

and then further to develop what was phrased as a reply to my post

I still think there are many posters on here who have yet to catch on to the supreme talent we have at our disposal.

Does itself carry implications beyond the faint praise argument as hinging on a semantic concern into the merits of the substance of my argument. Hence I find for the reasons previously stated that I am not guilty. In addition the main thrust of the argument was that Pienaar was better at SH than at FH (I think we actually agree on this) and I am all too aware of RP's talents and not downplaying them at all.
Second- Continuing to play Piennar at SH clearly leaves the 10 shirt open (we agree on this as well.) I offered a clarification of the merits as I saw it for having a specialist FH drafted in (so to speak.) I note that these haven't been addressed in your post namely- the merits of competition for the shirt, cover for the position and to help develop Jackson (not necessarily to the exclusion of RPs efforts in this regard as well). I still stand by these. We can't rely on Jackson just yet and I'd rather see Pienaar at SH therefore we need to get a good replacement for IH.

I hope I have clarified matters somewhat.

Very kind of you to remind me. At my age anything more than ten minutes ago may as well never have happened............
Some and many clearly state that I am not talking about you I was talking about ‘people’.
Let me clarify. This was aimed directly at you:

You are damning RP with faint praise there Mikkii6. RP is a world class 9 and nearly as good at 10. He is a far better 10 than anyone we could bring in and we have the advantage that he will also be on the pitch playing with PJ.

Semantics as you say, for me decent means less than good.
The rest was general chat.

[Snipe Watson]

Madigan is 23 but PJ is 20 so has three more years before he catches up with Madigan, by that time Madigan could be Irelands first choice 10 as Sexton would be 29 or close to 30

I don't think Madigan will ever be as good as Sexton who will be at his peak at 29 or 30.

[breakdown]

Snipe I disagree about your comments of RP being a class 10. Yes he is a good 10 and a very good 9, but he is not 'nearly world class' at OH. He played there vs Edinburgh, didnt do anything spectacular and I think its fair to say that beagle won us that game. He is the best 10 we have but at 9 he is the best in the world and shouldnt be moved about therefore disrupting him at all.

[Snipe Watson]

Snipe I disagree about your comments of RP being a class 10. Yes he is a good 10 and a very good 9, but he is not 'nearly world class' at OH. He played there vs Edinburgh, didnt do anything spectacular and I think its fair to say that beagle won us that game. He is the best 10 we have but at 9 he is the best in the world and shouldnt be moved about therefore disrupting him at all.

I think everyone is hungover today.

I said if he played there every week he would be world class.
For the record I don't think he is the best 9 in the world.

[breakdown]

Madigan is 23 but PJ is 20 so has three more years before he catches up with Madigan, by that time Madigan could be Irelands first choice 10 as Sexton would be 29 or close to 30

I don't think Madigan will ever be as good as Sexton who will be at his peak at 29 or 30.

In fairness Snipe they are two different types of players, Sexton plays more of a role where he distriputes the ball well and creates space and overlaps but Madigan is a more dangerous player and a more running 10, he exploits gaps with his pace and awareness, hard to compare them really. If i'm honest Madigan seems like he could do a job at 13 as well as 10.