The UAFC

bazzaj wrote: I am still however very much a rugby purist and out wide we lack the cutting edge of a Habana, Le Roux, AAC, Folau or even New Zealands reserves tthat make the difference.

Of the players you mention I would only place Israel Folau in the special category. Habana was once a very special player, but is past his best. Le Roux is an unbelievable broken field runner, but can make a pigs ear of it too. Adam Ashley-Cooper is a very good player, but no better than we have.

bazzaj wrote:O
I am still however very much a rugby purist and out wide we lack the cutting edge of a Habana, Le Roux, AAC, Folau or even New Zealands reserves tthat make the difference.

That's no issue Bazza. I hear Dave Kearney is being lined up for selection in the next game. Problem solved.

Sorted Shan
AAC is iny my opinion snipe, one of of the greatest line cutters I have ever seen.
He is a different class and it frustrates me that he doesn't get the accolades he deserves.
Most certainly top drawer

bazzaj wrote:Sorted Shan
AAC is iny my opinion snipe, one of of the greatest line cutters I have ever seen.
He is a different class and it frustrates me that he doesn't get the accolades he deserves.
Most certainly top drawer

I'm not disagreeing Baz, he's very good and does run superb lines. You clearly see him as being on a different level to me. I wouldn't pick him over Trimble on the wing or Henshaw in the centre. He can play anywhere in the outside backs, but in my view is not outstanding and by that I mean top 2 or 3 in the world, in any of them.

Dave Kearney has this ability to tackle

Snipe Watson wrote:

bazzaj wrote:Sorted Shan
AAC is iny my opinion snipe, one of of the greatest line cutters I have ever seen.
He is a different class and it frustrates me that he doesn't get the accolades he deserves.
Most certainly top drawer

I'm not disagreeing Baz, he's very good and does run superb lines. You clearly see him as being on a different level to me. I wouldn't pick him over Trimble on the wing or Henshaw in the centre. He can play anywhere in the outside backs, but in my view is not outstanding and by that I mean top 2 or 3 in the world, in any of them.

Fair enough if you wouldn`t pick him in the top 3 in the world sniper but I would have him a darn sight higher than Trimble or Henshaw.
Over 100 caps and over 30 tries for Australia are world class stats that puts AAC in the top 25 all time list for both alone.
Compare that to Trimble`s 58 caps and 18 tries is a fairly average return for an international winger these days and Henshaw has barely got going and therefore doesn`t even warrant comparison.

Tries are how wings tend to be judged like a striker in football but AAC also played the majority at centre it has to be said and created as much as he scored on Aussie teams that spent a lot of time on the back foot.
However above all that AAC is a player I love to watch and the closest technically gifted player to BOD as I have seen in modern times.
As I say as under rated as they come.

bazzaj wrote:

Snipe Watson wrote:

bazzaj wrote:Sorted Shan
AAC is iny my opinion snipe, one of of the greatest line cutters I have ever seen.
He is a different class and it frustrates me that he doesn't get the accolades he deserves.
Most certainly top drawer

I'm not disagreeing Baz, he's very good and does run superb lines. You clearly see him as being on a different level to me. I wouldn't pick him over Trimble on the wing or Henshaw in the centre. He can play anywhere in the outside backs, but in my view is not outstanding and by that I mean top 2 or 3 in the world, in any of them.

Fair enough if you wouldn`t pick him in the top 3 in the world sniper but I would have him a darn sight higher than Trimble or Henshaw.
Over 100 caps and over 30 tries for Australia are world class stats that puts AAC in the top 25 all time list for both alone.
Compare that to Trimble`s 58 caps and 18 tries is a fairly average return for an international winger these days and Henshaw has barely got going and therefore doesn`t even warrant comparison.

Tries are how wings tend to be judged like a striker in football but AAC also played the majority at centre it has to be said and created as much as he scored on Aussie teams that spent a lot of time on the back foot.
However above all that AAC is a player I love to watch and the closest technically gifted player to BOD as I have seen in modern times.
As I say as under rated as they come.

So AAC scores an international try every 3.3 games and AAT scores a try every 3.22 games.

As for "Tries are how wings tend to be judged like a striker in football". I would tend to agree...except of course in the case of Fitzgerald for whom special dispensation is suddenly given. Wildly over rated player. Nice feet, good skills but as effective as a chocolate teapot. 13 tries in 5 years in all competitions is frankly laughable. Can you imagine Zebo, Earls, AAT or Bowe playing for Ireland if that was their strike rate? Not a hope in hell. It's another example of certain irish players being given a bye ball no matter what the evidence tells us. Sometimes it's because of Old Father Time's work being simply ignored. It happened with the Bull, Darcy and ROG and a few others but with Fitzgerald, every excuse under the sun is trotted out.

Firstly Jack AAC spent the majority games as a centre which is by its nature, less of a try scoring position than wing which would be a factor (Smith and Nonu have similar records).
Secondly judging on strike rates would make someone scoring a try on debut 100% and the fact that they all have played significantly more games than AT with similar strike rates is a consideration.

I think also by reputation if we were to be having this debate in the SH the general response is likely to be "Who is Andrew Trimble?"
If the debate is that AT (as good as he is), can be mentioned in the same breath as any of those players then declare me officially out.

AT has had one top season internationally so to start calling him world class is a joke quite frankly. He a fairly limited player - does most things well or very well or nothing really fantastic. Not great at kicking, not lightening quick, not a steper, not amazing in the air just an all round solid guy who is physically very strong. Had a brilliant season last year so hopefully he can find that form and have a good world cup.

How many 'world class' players (whatever that means..) do you reckon ireland have? POC still included? Probably. Healy and SOB when they are fit. Can't really justify many others.

Much of an admirer of Trimble as I am to say that AAC and he are on a similar level is just crapola.

From an Ulster perspective I wouldn't change Trimble for the world as he's a blood and guts Ulsterman who gives his all on every occasion.

If I was picking a world XV and it was between Trimble and AAC there's really only one winner.

bazzaj wrote:AAC is iny my opinion snipe,

I can tell you categorically that AAC is NOT Snipe.

what a ludicrous suggestion!

(cue discussion now of who is better between AAT and Snipe)

Ireland's world class players
1. Sexton
End

Russ wrote:Ireland's world class players
1. Sexton
2. Healy
End

Fixed

I would add Murray and an in form O'Brien in there as well.

Arguably in terms of a player who is world class at his primary job Mike Ross would be there or thereabouts as a scrummager IMO. Obviously getting on in years and never been much use around the park but he's probably up there as one of the best TH scrummagers in the world still.

Snipe Watson wrote:

Russ wrote:Ireland's world class players
1. Sexton
2. Healy
End

Fixed

Calling Healy a world class prop is shyte... the guys a decent international scrummager, and no more. Great around the pitch, but any of Ayerza, or many in the Top 14 are Miles better. Even the Beast. Defintely Corbisiero, who si top 2 when fit. I reckon McGrath is a better pure scrummager. And Denis Buckley, believe it or not, the best of all the current Irish Looseheads in terms of pure scrummaging ability.

So what terms are we defining as world class criteria if it's by position? A props should be best in terms of propping, otherwise it's specious as there's better ball carriers than Healy, but they're not props.